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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:01 pm 
Peoria Matt wrote:
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There will be MANY board members who never heard of him who will now post as experts regarding his past judicial history.

ENJOY


Still waiting on the link to Obama turning off the White House lights after the election story.

Still waiting for you to tell me where my disconnect is between what the Archbishop said you should believe on Sunday and you sticking up for the Muslim ban.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:06 pm 
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http://www.scotusblog.com/2017/01/poten ... l-gorsuch/

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Another area in which Gorsuch has written persuasively in a manner that closely echoes Scalia relates to how to interpret criminal laws correctly, so as to avoid criminalizing potentially innocent conduct. One of Gorsuch’s most notable opinions in this area also happens to overlap with the hot-button issue of gun ownership — although the case is not about the Second Amendment, and doesn’t involve anything like the typical gun-rights groups.

A federal criminal law prohibits the knowing possession of a gun by a felon. This law has given rise to a debate about how best to read its limitation to “knowing” violations: Does it apply whenever a felon knowingly possesses a gun, or must violators also know that they have been convicted of a felony? This matters, because lots of minor crimes might technically be felonies, and lots of dispositions that seem inconsequential (because they involve no jail time) might technically be felony convictions. And the penalties for violating this law can be very high. In United States v. Games-Perez, in 2012, Gorsuch urged the 10th Circuit to review its rule holding that it is enough to support a conviction that the defendant knew he possessed the gun, whether or not he knew he was a felon. The opinion is an example of Gorsuch’s strong commitment to textualism, and a severe critique of using legislative history — particularly to make criminal what might otherwise be innocent. Accordingly, it is easy to hear clear echoes of Scalia’s views regarding the proper reading of statutes — especially criminal statutes — as well as the importance of focusing on ordinary usage and linguistic rules.

A few examples make the resemblance even clearer. Take this sentence from Games-Perez: “For current purposes, just stating Capps‘s holding makes the problem clear enough: its interpretation—reading Congress’s mens rea requirement as leapfrogging over the first statutorily specified element and touching down only at the second listed element—defies grammatical gravity and linguistic logic.” Or this passage, which contains both an endorsement of Second Amendment rights and a classic Scalia principle about attaching mens rea requirements to the element that criminalizes innocent conduct:

'Besides, even if the government could somehow manage to squeeze an ambiguity out of the plain statutory text before us, it faces another intractable problem. The Supreme Court has long recognized a “presumption” grounded in our common law tradition that a mens rea requirement attaches to “each of the statutory elements that criminalize otherwise innocent conduct.” … Together §§ 922(g) and 924(a)(2) operate to criminalize the possession of any kind of gun. But gun possession is often lawful and sometimes even protected as a matter of constitutional right. The only statutory element separating innocent (even constitutionally protected) gun possession from criminal conduct in §§ 922(g) and 924(a) is a prior felony conviction. So the presumption that the government must prove mens rea here applies with full force.'


That last bit is key. He reads statutes just like Scalia, in what I think is a perfectly reasonable method.

Quote:
Another area of the law in which Gorsuch has shown both his writing talent and his similarity to Scalia is in the application (and critique) of doctrines surrounding the so-called “dormant commerce clause.” These doctrines treat the commerce clause not only as a grant of power to Congress to make laws regulating interstate commerce, but as a kind of presumptive limitation on the power of states to make laws that either unduly burden or unfairly discriminate against interstate commerce, without regard to whether Congress has ever passed a law in the relevant area. Because — as its name suggests — the dormant commerce clause cannot actually be found in the text of the Constitution, Scalia eventually came around to the view that it should not be a thing, and refused to endorse any future expansions of the doctrine. For example, in 2015, in a dissenting opinion in Comptroller v. Wynne, Scalia stated: “The fundamental problem with our negative Commerce Clause cases is that the Constitution does not contain a negative Commerce Clause.” Although a court of appeals judge lacks the same freedom to disparage and/or depart from existing Supreme Court precedent, Gorsuch’s opinions also reveal a measure of distrust towards unwritten constitutional provisions like the dormant commerce clause.

For example, a 2015 10th Circuit decision written by Gorsuch, Energy and Environment Legal Institute v. Epel, declined to apply the dormant commerce clause to strike down a clean-energy program created by Colorado on the grounds that it might negatively affect traditional energy producers outside the state. The opinion explains that this result is consistent with the limited reach of the dormant commerce clause’s “judicial free trade policy” even under existing precedent. But while acknowledging that lower courts must take the Supreme Court’s doctrine as they find it, Gorsuch’s opinion shows respect for the doctrine’s “[d]etractors,” like Scalia, who “find dormant commerce doctrine absent from the Constitution’s text and incompatible with its structure.” Though Gorsuch’s personal constitution seems to require him to write clearly about the many unclear aspects of the doctrine, his opinion plainly takes some joy in the act of demonstrating that not only does the dormant commerce clause not apply — the doctrine also doesn’t make much sense. That same instinct is present in a prominent concurrence last year in Direct Marketing Association v. Brohl, in which Gorsuch singled out one aspect of dormant commerce clause doctrine—the Quill rule that exempts out-of-state mail order sales from state sales tax—as an “analytical oddity” that “seems deliberately designed” to be overruled eventually. This opinion aligned him with Justice Anthony Kennedy (who has called for overruling Quill), and again with Scalia, who identified Quill as part of the “bestiary of ad hoc tests and ad hoc exceptions that we apply nowadays” under the dormant commerce clause.


Any jurist that will openly--and gleefully, it seems--wrangle in the commerce clause is alright by me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Try not to Gorsuch

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.


“I feel very good about his chances,” said U.S. Sen. Cory Gardner, who pointed out that the Senate approved by voice vote his 2006 nomination for his current judicial post. “People felt so confident in him and his qualifications that they didn’t even require a recorded vote.”

Democrats love him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Though, for a guy that adheres to such a strict reading of statutes, his introduction of "reasonableness" and "intent" into arguments for rolling back the Establishment Clause is rather perplexing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Try not to Gorsuch

I'd settle for him not being the toadie his mother was at the EPA

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Try not to Gorsuch

I'd settle for him not being the toadie his mother was at the EPA



Keep hope alive old man.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.


He believes in "religious freedom" which means one can discriminate in the name of their good book.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Try not to Gorsuch

I'd settle for him not being the toadie his mother was at the EPA


Had no idea about that story--what a story it is. He comes from quite the upstanding family. At least he's not Catholic though.

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/02/16/opini ... e-epa.html

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:26 am 
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Chus wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.


He believes in "religious freedom" which means one can discriminate in the name of their good book.


I'd be interested to see the 13th Amendment explored as a defense in these kinds of situations, especially concerning private citizens, and not corporations like Hobby Lobby.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:12 am 
Chus wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.


He believes in "religious freedom" which means one can discriminate in the name of their good book.

Seacrest? Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:30 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Chus wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.


He believes in "religious freedom" which means one can discriminate in the name of their good book.

Seacrest? Thoughts?


He is too busy defending an aspiring rapist who can't handle being asked to clarify his hypocritical statements about Trump.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:35 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Chus wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.


He believes in "religious freedom" which means one can discriminate in the name of their good book.


I'd be interested to see the 13th Amendment explored as a defense in these kinds of situations, especially concerning private citizens, and not corporations like Hobby Lobby.

I'm sure that given his upbringing in a family heavily invested in the John Birch society, he has special thoughts on the 13th Amendment :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:11 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Chus wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Antonin Scalia was one of the most patronizing, lying son of a bitches I have ever had the opportunity to talk with. I hope Gorsuch isn't as big a political hack as that heinous bastard.

We'll see. But I'm inclined to believe him to be in the shitstain Alito (or Harriet Miers) class.

Sad! Maybe.


He believes in "religious freedom" which means one can discriminate in the name of their good book.


I'd be interested to see the 13th Amendment explored as a defense in these kinds of situations, especially concerning private citizens, and not corporations like Hobby Lobby.

I'm sure that given his upbringing in a family heavily invested in the John Birch society, he has special thoughts on the 13th Amendment :shock:



Where did you dig that up?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:14 am 
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Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:19 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


Oh I know. My only surprise this morning is that we are not already on page 6 of he is Hitler, women, birth control and LBGT. I seriously would like to know where RR got that though. I tried google and got zero.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:25 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


What we really should be talking about is how Trump shouldn't be nominating anybody in the first place. But, you know, liberals.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:26 am 
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Birchers were afraid of commies taking over the govt. democrats are afraid of Nazis taking over the govt. So they should have a lot to talk about.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:27 am 
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Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


What we really should be talking about is how Trump shouldn't be nominating anybody in the first place. But, you know, liberals.


The news I saw last evening leading up to the pick made plenty of mention of the "stolen seat".

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:28 am 
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Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


What we really should be talking about is how Trump shouldn't be nominating anybody in the first place. But, you know, liberals.


Indeed, there you have a legit complaint. It falls into my other complaints about our democracy not functioning as intended, and it is turning into a two branch government- the Executive Branch and the Courts.

Congress barely functions- no regular budgets (only continuing resolutions), delayed approvals of nominees, no compromise on needed legislation (can you say immigration), etc, etc. And that leaves the President in a bind to just do whatever he can to fix ongoing problems in the country.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:30 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


What we really should be talking about is how Trump shouldn't be nominating anybody in the first place. But, you know, liberals.


The news I saw last evening leading up to the pick made plenty of mention of the "stolen seat".


Why the quotation marks? That's exactly what it is.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:31 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


What we really should be talking about is how Trump shouldn't be nominating anybody in the first place. But, you know, liberals.


The news I saw last evening leading up to the pick made plenty of mention of the "stolen seat".



The Republicans played the ultimate political game by not at least having a vote on Obama's last pick for the Supreme Court. If they had any guts and really didn't want to swing the Court, then they should have had fair hearings, held the vote, and then voted "no". Get on record. It still would have been a disaster to vote "no" because the pick was qualified.

But the Congress does not want to it its job. It just wants to second guess corporate America and run investigations on the other party. Grandstanding at its finest.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:34 am 
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Chus wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


What we really should be talking about is how Trump shouldn't be nominating anybody in the first place. But, you know, liberals.


The news I saw last evening leading up to the pick made plenty of mention of the "stolen seat".


Why the quotation marks? That's exactly what it is.


No reason besides that was ABC's term.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:38 am 
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denisdman wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Mike, I wouldn't worry about the views of left leaning folks about this pick. He is as damn near perfect from the perspective of right of center voters. They were going to complain no matter who was picked. The same thing happens when a Democrat picks a left of center person. It's like what do you expect?


What we really should be talking about is how Trump shouldn't be nominating anybody in the first place. But, you know, liberals.


The news I saw last evening leading up to the pick made plenty of mention of the "stolen seat".



The Republicans played the ultimate political game by not at least having a vote on Obama's last pick for the Supreme Court. If they had any guts and really didn't want to swing the Court, then they should have had fair hearings, held the vote, and then voted "no". Get on record. It still would have been a disaster to vote "no" because the pick was qualified.

But the Congress does not want to it its job. It just wants to second guess corporate America and run investigations on the other party. Grandstanding at its finest.


Pretty much. Also they made it crystal clear that "this nominee will be confirmed". They went on about how Reid laid the groundwork changing the rules and traditions for filibustering nominees and they have no qualms about nuclear option is necessary. What surprised me was the talking heads "advising" the Democrats to pick their spot and going hard against this guy may not be a good spot. I guess they are thinking avoid the option if you can.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:40 am 
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I do think it is funny that Conservative choices are never labeled "activist judges" even though they are picked because of their opinions on certain issues too.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:44 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I do think it is funny that Conservative choices are never labeled "activist judges" even though they are picked because of their opinions on certain issues too.


I think that label, while wrong in many cases, comes from the idea that conservatives want things the way they are and Liberals are trying to change things and move society forward. That certainly applies on a lot of emerging social issues throughout our history, most recently gay marriage, trans bathroom issues, and the like. Conservatives would like to keep discriminating for as long as the Court will allow.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:46 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I do think it is funny that Conservative choices are never labeled "activist judges" even though they are picked because of their opinions on certain issues too.


I think that label, while wrong in many cases, comes from the idea that conservatives want things the way they are and Liberals are trying to change things and move society forward. That certainly applies on a lot of emerging social issues throughout our history, most recently gay marriage, trans bathroom issues, and the like. Conservatives would like to keep discriminating for as long as the Court will allow.
That may have been true but many Conservative ideas now want to go backwards.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:48 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I do think it is funny that Conservative choices are never labeled "activist judges" even though they are picked because of their opinions on certain issues too.


I think that label, while wrong in many cases, comes from the idea that conservatives want things the way they are and Liberals are trying to change things and move society forward. That certainly applies on a lot of emerging social issues throughout our history, most recently gay marriage, trans bathroom issues, and the like. Conservatives would like to keep discriminating for as long as the Court will allow.
That may have been true but many Conservative ideas now want to go backwards.


Dead on. That's why I said wrong in many cases. As it respects the Supreme Court, Liberals have traditionally found thing in the Constitution that are outside a plain reading of the text. Roe v Wade is the most easily noted example. The destruction of the 10th Amendment under FDR is the other game changing set of rulings.

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