Ibaka to Toronto: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nb ... /97892006/

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

That's a nice pickup for Toronto. This could actually make a Raptors/Cavs conference final matchup interesting.

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You called him a bum a week ago.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I like hearing about Orlando transactions because it reminds me there is one organization who's easily more incompetent than the Bulls. They're our Mississippi.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He's never going to be "the guy", but as a 3rd or 4th best player on your team, he's not bad.

A lineup of:
Kyle Lowry
DeMar Dorozen
Serge Ibaka
Demarre Carroll
Jonas Valencunias

That's pretty damn good, and much better than any lineup the bulls would trot out that included Ibaka. He's probably the 4th best player in that starting 5.

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Nah. I was going to write this in the thread where you questioned my objectivity about the bulls but I'll write it here. I think there's a legitimate case to be made that this is the darkest period in bulls history since the 1998-1999 season. Outside of Butler there are no tradeable assets. All the young players are busts and, to add insult to injury, we spent two picks to draft one of those busts. The coach is more useful for laughs than he is for coaching, and the only thing the front office is good at lately is preserving their jobs. We were ridiculed nationally for the way in which Thibs was let go, and we're ridiculed semi frequently for the way in which this clown Hoiberg loses the locker room in embarrassing ways. Like DB mentioned, this is sort of like the Trestman era bears. Laughingstock on and off the court.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

yea, you trade Oladipo to get Ibaka, then give up on him halfway into the season ?

I don't even have to disagree with any of that and you'd still be wrong. Even if all that is true, look at Orlando and their roster. The simple fact of having Jimmy Butler alone makes the Bulls present and future possibilities better. Orlando truly has no clue what the fuck they are doing. Look at their roster transactions over the last 24 months and try to defend them as anything other than the most directionless franchise in the league.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Agree about Orlando. There are about 5 franchises that are easily in worst shape going forward than the Bulls. It is just convenient to say that because you rarely will get any pushback (at least on here).

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FF and LTG: I'm fine with agreeing that this is the darkest period in Bulls history since 1999, even if it is still better than Orlando, and that the Bulls are at worst the 6th shittiest organization and team right now.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I agree about 1999-2003. I used to see a lot of those guys out on the party scene back then. They used to make the rounds. Couldn't win a game but damn if they weren't goint to have a good time while losing like a motherfucker.

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I would quibble and say '02-'03. They were still pretty hopeless then.

But you're also saying Paxson has done a decent job in his tenure if that's the case. I wouldn't disagree.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Paxson was really good early on and he had the Jay Williams thing to deal with out the gate. His early moves save for Wallace and Thomas were solid. Probably a few other clunkers in there but those two stick out the most. I think he has lost interest as time has gone on and the GarPax configuration needs to end. Didn't they also lose one of their key scouting guys in the past 2-3 years? Maybe he was the "getter" and Paxson is lost without him.

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Great news! I feel MUCH better about the Boo knowing there are 5 out of the 29 other teams in worse shape. Just need to get the other 24 teams on the Bulls level.

I hate the use of hyperbole to make a point. That's all

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Yeah, I don't think anybody is particularly optimistic about the Bulls. But if you're gonna say they are the most poorly managed team in the NBA you should expect disagreement.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Paxson's biggest problem was that he liked his drafted players too much and then he couldn't seem to hit on any free agents. The best they did before Thibodeau was 1 playoff series win against the Heat. Some of those players like Ben Gordan and Luol Deng probably should have been traded for assets of value before they became free agents. Not trading Pau Gasol was inexcusable. They tried to strike lightning in a bottle with Rip Hamilton, they gave player options to Kirk Hinrich when he was bad and they signed Mike Dunleavy after he was injury prone. But the Derrick Rose injuries were completely out of Paxson's ability. Thibodeau got the most of those players without Rose, but he also drove them into the ground. Wade and Rondo were bad signings, but maybe it was just to make the season interesting after they traded Rose. The NBA is a difficult league because the winning teams are attempting a record number of three pointers and the Bulls are one of the poorest three point shooting teams in the NBA. The Bulls got Carlos Boozer and Pau Gasol several years after there was initial discussion of acquiring those players. It seems to be a Bulls/White Sox to sign aging players who are a couple years past their prime.

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God is the uncaused cause of the universe. He had no beginning and has no end. He is not bound by the laws of the universe he created.

When Paxson took over the Bulls really were a mess of a franchise. He had to build it from scratch and he did. The Rose injury was out of his control and is the single biggest thing for causing the current setback.

When you look at his hits they far outweigh the misses.

Deng

Gordon

Noah

Rose

Butler

Gasol (When most people thought he was done as an elite player.

Hinrich. Feelings were mixed on him and most thought he was a reach at #7

Gibson for where he was drafted was an excellent pick too. Some of the guys that went later I thought better but he was a good pick for where they picked him.

He also unloaded guys Crawford Chandler Jalen Rose Curry which allowed the franchise to move forward. Krause left him with a disastrous situation. I do agree with him holding onto guys to long and also overvaluing his guys too much.

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They had prospects though. Curry, Chandler, Williams, Crawford. They had the Hoiberg of 2002-2003 coaching, but other than that problem they had a core of young talent that still had potential (without using hindsight). We don't have anyone except Butler, and he's not a prospect - he's a known commodity who should try hard to get himself traded if he's smart.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Williams had one year and flashed potential. Curry and Chandler were god awful and Crawford didn't get good until years after he left Chicago. I remember being a Bulls fan in 2002. It wasn't a hopeful time.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Chandler always had the hustle when he was here, but he was so raw. I think the Bulls gave up on him too soon, or just lacked the coaching to develop him properly. Curry was just a fat slob.

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I sort of agree but I also think a lot of that is hindsight. Chandler played hard but he was a horrendous player when he was here.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You're underselling Williams and you know it. No way you're not reasonably optimistic about a decorated no 2. pick who averaged 10 and 5 off the bench basically during his rookie campaign. Curry and Chandler were bums but they weren't even 20 years old at the time. Would you take one B-level stud and a bunch of nobodies or four lottery pick prospects?

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You're still underselling Butler. By any criteria he's a top 10 NBA player right now. Nothing on the 2002 roster even added together equals that.

And again, yes I was excited for Williams but his career was over after one season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

How's calling him a B-level stud underselling him? By B-level I mean he's ranked right after the LBJs, Kawhis, Durants, Westbrooks, etc., of the world.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Tyson has always been raw. His best seasons were with Chris Paul in New Orleans. Lob City.

Chris Paul saved Tyson Chandler's career. He definitely helped change the perception of him.

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The Bulls stunk and Jalen Rose played a lot of the same hero ball that Butler plays now. Bill Cartwright let Rose do whatever the hell he wanted and it was a disaster. They also couldn't figure out what to do with Crawford. Didn't know if he was a 1 or 2 and had him and Rose clashing with Williams. I was a huge Jay Williams fan and thought that of the group listed, he could have been a breakout star.

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It's not hyperbole to call this team and organization out. Things are atrocious right now, despite how you may feel about Rondo's play with the benchwarmers.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Gar Forman has been running things since Paxson drafted Jimmy Butler. Look at the results. I heard that Thibs didn't have an issue with Paxson and loved Uncle Jerry. Forman has been the fuck up but Uncle Jerry loves him.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!