Waiting For Ruffcorn has become a formidable debater. He appears to have the stamina to withstand the Wizard of Nas and Long Post Guy.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

No, they won't, because people understand that secession was the central factor in the Civil War, and it (secession) was spurred by Lincoln running (and winning, wihtout carrying a single Southern state) on a platform of restricting slavery, a practice to which Southerners believed that had a constitutional right. They believed the federal outlawing of slavery would harm them in two ways:

1. The tools used to abolish slavery in the new territories would be the same tools used by courts and Congress to abolish or further restrict slavery in their home territories

2. Abolishing slavery in the new territories would create more areas into which they could not travel with "their property".

It had nothing at all to do with actually expanding the practice of slavery. They were "pro slavery", not "more slavery".



In favor of the literally hundreds of other quotes in which Lincoln says he despises slavery and wants to end it, up to and including where he ends it, yes.



It was actually a war for sovereignty. Popular Sovereignty was slipped into the Kansas-Nebraska Act, which itself made quite clear its stance on the legality of slavery in the two territories. The people fighting in Kansas weren't fighting to repeal a law, or to free slaves, they were fighting to get more of their own people into the territory so that Kansas could enter the Union as a free state and be further used to abolish slavery throughout the country. Pro-slavery groups saw this happening, and tried to stop it.

It had nothing to do with actually wanting more slaves and more slave-worked land in Kansas and Nebraska, it was about wanting to wield the political might to keep slavery legal in places where it was already legal.

Need to get back to the simpler times of Denis evaluating women.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Not really. Most of it is a debate over whether Lincoln was anti-slavery or not or whether his true feelings play into grading the job he did.

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Irish Boy doing work.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I almost posted a suggestive picture of Deanna Troi in the Star Trek thread as a way to show why most nerds liked The Next Generation.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

He won't give up until I say Lincoln was a saint or the G.O.A.T.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Sad! No one has proven any of MY points about Lincoln were wrong.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Not really. The United States in the form of a single entity the way we view it today would almost certainly not exist had Lincoln not been president. At best we'd be saying "these United States are" rather than "the United States is" and more likely the states or whatever they morphed into would not be united, if they existed at all.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Abraham Lincoln, Patron Saint of Abolishing Slavery but Not Clarifying Beforehand that Abolishing Slavery is a Good Thing

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

MANY (including me) have told you that we don't think your points matter. Disaster.

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He's performed miracles worthy of a saint, but I would settle for better than Washington and Teddy Roosevelt.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

I couldn't disagree more. That's little more than baseless speculation based on the hero worship many have for Presidents. If Lincoln had never been born, another guy would've done what he did or similar and we'd be in largely the same place today

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

There are two people you do not fuck with around this place unless you are willing to walk away- Brick and LTG. For Ruffcorn to engage like this shows he may be up to the task, but experience tells me, LTG will wear him down.

Now there are plenty of second tier, "tread carefully" types, like JORR and even FF, but I have seen great men fall to Brick and LTG.

Anyone want to play Tic Tac Toe?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

That is a much larger leap of faith than what JORR stated.

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Oh come on, Irish B--I mean, Juice's Lecture Notes doesn't get any love?

I beat all those people on a daily basis.

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If Lincoln loses the the south doesn't secede and slavery isn't prohibited in the new territories. The blacks wouldn't have been exploited to win a war. History isn't rewritten. Propaganda isn't shoved down our throats about a homosexual president. The United States still becomes the greatest country on earth and slavery is ultimately abolished 20 to 30 years later like it was WITH Lincoln.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Not even close

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You are completely wrong. The Pro slavery vs Free Soil forces actually battled over the right to bring make Kansas either free or slave. yet you state (incorrectly) that it had nothing to do with it. This is the essence of revisionism.

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I bet those slaves who had to endure 20 or 30 more years find those years to be a bit more important than you do.

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So worse than FDR?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Cool. Good debate.

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JLN, you're an emerging threat but have yet to reach the big leagues. Ruffcorn has a less abrasive style that contrasts well in these arguments. So many guys go off the deep end and use hyperbole. He is like a well oiled machine firing off factoids in a constructive manner.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

We know slavery ended in name only. It took several decades for it to truly end. I suppose MANY wouldn't have noticed the difference.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

It's like saying nothing bad could ever happen because it worked out this way. If the South had won, and when slaves were no longer needed on farms in such volume due to technology, what would the South have done with them? Think they would vote to make them citizens?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

I'd like to point out that when LTG finishes his six paragraph response to something posted on page 7 of this thread, he is going to get a long message about all the other posts that have been made since.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Seriously though, I don't even know how you could say that. First of all, JORR made the assertion we would be radically different without backing it up. So that right there would indicate his is more a leap of faith than me saying we would basically be fine.

Second, stop acting like Abraham Lincoln was some kind of God. You're saying, with a straight face, that the only person talented and motivated enough to end slavery just happened to come along at the perfect time and place in history to end it? We've had great Presidents and terrible Presidents before and after Lincoln. Even if we all agree he's the concensus #1 on the list, it shouldn't be hard to acknowledge that slavery would've ended and we'd still be a united country today even if he never existed. Taking the opposite stance is a much more radical opinion than any I've posited.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's why I don't care about Trump. If he had never been born some other guy would have just banned Muslims and appointed Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education.

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Freedom is our Strength.

CSFMB is certain about issues historians disagree upon.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.