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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

But if you TRULY have religious beliefs how could you possibly not have them affect government policy? You wouldn't be much of a Christian, Muslim, etc. if you did.



Your values certainly guide your actions. But there is a civil world and a private world, and I don't want those to intersect. It is one of the purely genius things about our country's founding in that the government does not get involved in religion. And for those on the right that generally despise the government, why would they want to mix the two?


So you want people to privately believe in doing unto others, but not to do that publicly?


I want people to privately practice their religious beliefs as they see fit. Publicly, I wanted a unified body of law that reflects broader public opinion and is not done so for individual religious purposes. I'll give you an example:

Gay Marriage: No problem with priests and churches not marrying two men.
Chicago Courthouse: No problem with a judge marrying two men.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:58 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

But if you TRULY have religious beliefs how could you possibly not have them affect government policy? You wouldn't be much of a Christian, Muslim, etc. if you did.



Your values certainly guide your actions. But there is a civil world and a private world, and I don't want those to intersect. It is one of the purely genius things about our country's founding in that the government does not get involved in religion. And for those on the right that generally despise the government, why would they want to mix the two?


So you want people to privately believe in doing unto others, but not to do that publicly?


I want people to privately practice their religious beliefs as they see fit. Publicly, I wanted a unified body of law that reflects broader public opinion and is not done so for individual religious purposes. I'll give you an example:

Gay Marriage: No problem with priests and churches not marrying two men.
Chicago Courthouse: No problem with a judge marrying two men.



I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.

But getting back to your original point, the belief of doing unto others is a Christian concept, and not something that is universally agreed upon. It is reflected in many of our laws because christians brought it to the public square.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
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Unfortunately atheists are unelectable.

trump isn't atheist?

I don't believe so, no ... I'm guessing his flavor of Christianity centers around the perverse and/or heretical idea of 'Profit Theology' which I would suggest amplifies his already peculiar predilections and disconcerting idiosyncrasies.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:14 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:17 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.


Now you've done it.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Chus wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.


Now you've done it.


Yeah, now I completely support dman.


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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:30 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.



So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.



So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.

To be clear, you're saying legalizing gay marriage isn't feasible, correct?

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:


So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.


Surveys shows religion is dying in the West.

Religion has an impact on society now but most likely that will diminish in the future if current trends continues.

My feelings have nothing to do with any of it.

My example is not only feasible it is in fact happening. The Supreme Court has ruled that civil gay marriage is the law of the land. Unless I am mistaken, churches are not forced to marry same sex couples. That is reality. AND it is a beautiful thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.



So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.

To be clear, you're saying legalizing gay marriage isn't feasible, correct?
No nation that has ever legalized gay marriage has lasted more than 1000 years, duh.


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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:39 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.



So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.

To be clear, you're saying legalizing gay marriage isn't feasible, correct?


Too be clear, this how rumors get started.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:39 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I agree that women shouldn't be forced to wear any type of head covering to visit an Islamic country, including and especially powerful politicians, and it's a good thing they are publicly attacking the backwards practice.

Exactly. It's offensive to all women to force it.

Oh I forgot that all women 'choose' to wear them.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:43 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.



So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.

To be clear, you're saying legalizing gay marriage isn't feasible, correct?


denisdman wrote:
Gay Marriage: No problem with priests and churches not marrying two men.
Chicago Courthouse: No problem with a judge marrying two men.


What I'm saying is that at some point, churches will not be allowed to choose not to marry two men or women.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Well Catholic Churches have not been forced to allow female priests even with all of our Civil Rights laws. So I think there is pretty good precedent that the government is going to allow churches to keep "discriminating" as long as they want. Now you may be referring to courts forcing businesses to serve situations they do not approve of like making a cake for a gay couple. I can't help you there because those businesses are not a church. And allowing those businesses to discriminate in that way leads us back down an ugly path.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:50 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Well Catholic Churches have not been forced to allow female priests even with all of our Civil Rights laws. So I think there is pretty good precedent that the government is going to allow churches to keep "discriminating" as long as they want. Now you may be referring to courts forcing businesses to serve situations they do not approve of like making a cake for a gay couple. I can't help you there because those businesses are not a church. And allowing those businesses to discriminate in that way leads us back down an ugly path.

Good luck. Lots of persecution complexes because people have more rights now.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Well it amazes me that we would even need laws or courts to tell a business that it must sell to a lawful customer. It is really a sad state of affairs when you would refuse service to someone. But oh well, I saw Remember the Titans, so I guess it used to be worse. They didn't even like the California White Boy in that movie.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:54 pm 
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people can be annoying. I shouldn't have to work for someone annoying if I don't want to.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
people can be annoying. I shouldn't have to work for someone annoying if I don't want to.


Are you saying the people of Hanover Park are annoying?

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.



So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.

To be clear, you're saying legalizing gay marriage isn't feasible, correct?


Too be clear, this how rumors get started.

I'm not starting any rumors. I asked you what you were referring to because you left it pretty vague, which is out of character for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
people can be annoying. I shouldn't have to work for someone annoying if I don't want to.

Um... you don't have to? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:01 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Well Catholic Churches have not been forced to allow female priests even with all of our Civil Rights laws. So I think there is pretty good precedent that the government is going to allow churches to keep "discriminating" as long as they want. Now you may be referring to courts forcing businesses to serve situations they do not approve of like making a cake for a gay couple. I can't help you there because those businesses are not a church. And allowing those businesses to discriminate in that way leads us back down an ugly path.


So you are unaware of attempts by the previous POTUS to force a group of nuns to pay for things like the abortion pill, or you just think that it government intervention won't go any further?

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I asked you what you were referring to because you left it pretty vague, which is out of character for you.

:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:05 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Well Catholic Churches have not been forced to allow female priests even with all of our Civil Rights laws. So I think there is pretty good precedent that the government is going to allow churches to keep "discriminating" as long as they want. Now you may be referring to courts forcing businesses to serve situations they do not approve of like making a cake for a gay couple. I can't help you there because those businesses are not a church. And allowing those businesses to discriminate in that way leads us back down an ugly path.



Btw, if Catholics don't give Communion to satanists is that a civil rights offense as well?

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:12 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Why is it that so many on the left will attack Christianity for being "bigoted"(granted many of these attacks are fair) but turn a blind eye to the same type of tactics fostered by Islam?


Right. Some of the same people who don't think a Christian loon like Ted Cruz or Mike Pence would be near the White House are so fucking offended by Ben Carson saying he didn't think a Muslim should be president. I don't want any religious nutjob running the country. Unfortunately atheists are unelectable.


Because he said Muslim. He didn't say Muslim loon or religious nutjob.


I don't think he was talking about a "Muslim" who didn't actually believe in Islamic doctrine. Bill Clinton is a "Christian". Do you consider him the same as Mike Pence?


No I don't. Carson left it at "Muslim" for a reason. He was trying to pander to a group of voters who hate ALL Muslims. If he would have said "We don't need a radical Muslim or Muslim nutjob" MANY wouldn't disagree.


Disagree. #44 made it a point to never use the term "radical muslim". One of my few beefs with the man.


Now you have a president that will say anything. Will those words solve anything? Insulting over a billion people and claiming you are at war with an entire religion won't solve anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:20 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Now you have a president that will say anything. Will those words solve anything? Insulting over a billion people and claiming you are at war with an entire religion won't solve anything.


Unless of course it's Christians clinging to religion and guns. In that case, insult away!

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Why is it that so many on the left will attack Christianity for being "bigoted"(granted many of these attacks are fair) but turn a blind eye to the same type of tactics fostered by Islam?


Right. Some of the same people who don't think a Christian loon like Ted Cruz or Mike Pence would be near the White House are so fucking offended by Ben Carson saying he didn't think a Muslim should be president. I don't want any religious nutjob running the country. Unfortunately atheists are unelectable.


Because he said Muslim. He didn't say Muslim loon or religious nutjob.


I don't think he was talking about a "Muslim" who didn't actually believe in Islamic doctrine. Bill Clinton is a "Christian". Do you consider him the same as Mike Pence?


No I don't. Carson left it at "Muslim" for a reason. He was trying to pander to a group of voters who hate ALL Muslims. If he would have said "We don't need a radical Muslim or Muslim nutjob" MANY wouldn't disagree.



I think you're fantasizing about this supposed group that simply hates all Muslims for the sake of hatred, and frankly you're pretending that Muslim beliefs have nothing to do with how they are perceived.

If there was a group that espoused every Muslim belief and it was started last week by Milo and Ben Shapiro I am 100% certain you would not be on a message board defending it.


There is a group that hates all Muslims because of ignorance.

White men have been responsible for more wars and terrorism than any group of people on earth. I defend them daily and never state that all are evil because of the words or actions of a small minority.

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Well Catholic Churches have not been forced to allow female priests even with all of our Civil Rights laws. So I think there is pretty good precedent that the government is going to allow churches to keep "discriminating" as long as they want. Now you may be referring to courts forcing businesses to serve situations they do not approve of like making a cake for a gay couple. I can't help you there because those businesses are not a church. And allowing those businesses to discriminate in that way leads us back down an ugly path.


So you are unaware of attempts by the previous POTUS to force a group of nuns to pay for things like the abortion pill, or you just think that it government intervention won't go any further?


The Little Sisters of the Poor are a church?


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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:25 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Seacrest wrote:


I don't believe that your example is feasible long term.


Yeah you're right. Religion in the West as we know it is dying. All the stats point that way- church attendance, closing of religious schools, identification, etc. So at some point in the not too distant future, religion will have next to nothing in terms of impact on civil society.

And frankly the close mindedness of MANY religious types has pushed me towards thinking this is a good thing. Too much intolerance among that crowd.



So because you feel religion is dying and has no impact on society, hardly makes your feelings true.

Furthermore, it is exactly why your example is not feasible.

To be clear, you're saying legalizing gay marriage isn't feasible, correct?


Too be clear, this how rumors get started.

I'm not starting any rumors. I asked you what you were referring to because you left it pretty vague, which is out of character for you.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Marine Le Pen!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Now you have a president that will say anything. Will those words solve anything? Insulting over a billion people and claiming you are at war with an entire religion won't solve anything.


Unless of course it's Christians clinging to religion and guns. In that case, insult away!

That was a Christian man pointing out flaws in his fellow Christians. Isn't that what you ask of Muslims?

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