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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Killer V wrote:
Still waiting for JORR's transgender encounter story (because you know there is one)...



You can't always be sure. Also, I would suspect that most people I have seen representing as the opposite gender don't actually suffer from true gender dysphoria, but rather are more likely to simply be gay and just like dressing up.

However, I did have a regular customer at my speaker store who was a 6'2" black woman (About 6'7" in her heels) named "Candy". She was pretty good looking. I always assumed she was a he.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
I don't buy a lot of makeup and I'll buy as much from those brands as I did before. This does not make me want to run out and buy Covergirl for myself or my daughter though. Too much of a statement, and in a way and I feel like it's becoming that way for everything.

The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Cover Girl has been pushing this trend in its television ads lately.
I think its incredibly weird.
But, then again, I'm not Frank Coztansa.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I don't buy a lot of makeup and I'll buy as much from those brands as I did before. This does not make me want to run out and buy Covergirl for myself or my daughter though. Too much of a statement, and in a way and I feel like it's becoming that way for everything.

The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.


This type of advertising tends to blow-up on companies. I bet there will be a case of Covergirl not treating a trans person well, and they will get called out on social media.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:06 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I don't buy a lot of makeup and I'll buy as much from those brands as I did before. This does not make me want to run out and buy Covergirl for myself or my daughter though. Too much of a statement, and in a way and I feel like it's becoming that way for everything.

The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.


This type of advertising tends to blow-up on companies. I bet there will be a case of Covergirl not treating a trans person well, and they will get called out on social media.



They want to look cool for the somewhere between 0.3-0.03% population and their supporters. Hey, that means there are likely more protesters for transgenders than there are transgenders.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Killer V wrote:
Still waiting for JORR's transgender encounter story (because you know there is one)...



You can't always be sure. Also, I would suspect that most people I have seen representing as the opposite gender don't actually suffer from true gender dysphoria, but rather are more likely to simply be gay and just like dressing up.

However, I did have a regular customer at my speaker store who was a 6'2" black woman (About 6'7" in her heels) named "Candy". She was pretty good looking. I always assumed she was a he.


I had a client in my old commercial production career who transitioned (publicly) over the course of a weekend. Left on Friday as a "he" and came back Monday as a "she." She had the surgery a year later. It was the advertising world though so no one really got worked up about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:07 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I don't buy a lot of makeup and I'll buy as much from those brands as I did before. This does not make me want to run out and buy Covergirl for myself or my daughter though. Too much of a statement, and in a way and I feel like it's becoming that way for everything.

The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.


This type of advertising tends to blow-up on companies. I bet there will be a case of Covergirl not treating a trans person well, and they will get called out on social media.
It could but this happens pretty much any time you are pushing the acceptance stuff. I'm sure the initial companies that stood behind gay marriage had the same potential issue.

I still don't see why it is bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Killer V wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Killer V wrote:
Still waiting for JORR's transgender encounter story (because you know there is one)...



You can't always be sure. Also, I would suspect that most people I have seen representing as the opposite gender don't actually suffer from true gender dysphoria, but rather are more likely to simply be gay and just like dressing up.

However, I did have a regular customer at my speaker store who was a 6'2" black woman (About 6'7" in her heels) named "Candy". She was pretty good looking. I always assumed she was a he.


I had a client in my old commercial production career who transitioned (publicly) over the course of a weekend. Left on Friday as a "he" and came back Monday as a "she." She had the surgery a year later. It was the advertising world though so no one really got worked up about it.


Oh, I just remembered this! I got called in for a tax audit at the IRS facility in Morton Grove. The auditor was this guy named Wayne. I heard he later transitioned to Wanda.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
I don't buy a lot of makeup and I'll buy as much from those brands as I did before. This does not make me want to run out and buy Covergirl for myself or my daughter though. Too much of a statement, and in a way and I feel like it's becoming that way for everything.

The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.


This type of advertising tends to blow-up on companies. I bet there will be a case of Covergirl not treating a trans person well, and they will get called out on social media.
It could but this happens pretty much any time you are pushing the acceptance stuff. I'm sure the initial companies that stood behind gay marriage had the same potential issue.

I still don't see why it is bad.


I don't think it's bad. I don't like it because these companies typically have zero morality. If they think they can make a buck off trans acceptance they will. I don't think it's brave to do so years after the Caitlyn Jenner experience.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Oh, I just remembered this. I got called in for a tax audit at the IRS facility in Morton Grove. The auditor was this guy named Wayne. I heard he later transitioned to Wanda.


Hiding your gambling victories?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:16 pm 
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At my past position I worked with a guy named Ron for 18 years. Mostly over phone/email etc so rarely seen. I still do business with that company and "he" is still there. Now though he is Veronica. Without having talked to "her" people would ask me about Veronica and I had to keep on asking who? Nothing wrong with it obviously but just odd to get used to.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:23 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Oh, I just remembered this. I got called in for a tax audit at the IRS facility in Morton Grove. The auditor was this guy named Wayne. I heard he later transitioned to Wanda.


Hiding your gambling victories?


:lol: It was over Certain Gambling Winnings. I had a stack of losing tickets to offset the signers, but Wayne said I could have picked those up off the floor. Then I brought in banker's boxes of race programs for every day of the tax year. Wayne allowed the deductions. But he cautioned me that in the future I needed to keep a detailed ledger of all bets, wins, and losses. I got audited again a couple years later. This time I had the ledger. Again, no change. Still I had to pay my accountant a lot to go over there with me. It was a pain in the ass.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.


I think we are beyond acceptance, I think everything has to be celebrated and that's what I don't like. They are 2 different things and society is treating it as if they are the same. I can accept, respect, and even love somebody and not agree with what they are doing, lifestyle, and choices they make. That goes on with in my family all the time. If they want me to celebrate their uniqueness they should celebrate my conventionality. And who is to define what is normal or should be accepted? You can't put what you believe on to others.

JORR asked how I'd feel if my husband started wearing makeup. A better question would be how I'd feel if my son did. I wouldn't like that at all. I wouldn't hate him or make fun of him or make him go get help. I also would not take him out shopping and exchange makeup tips with him. I would not agree with it at all, but I would still love him.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.


I think we are beyond acceptance, I think everything has to be celebrated and that's what I don't like. They are 2 different things and society is treating it as if they are the same. I can accept, respect, and even love somebody and not agree with what they are doing, lifestyle, and choices they make. That goes on with in my family all the time. If they want me to celebrate their uniqueness they should celebrate my conventionality. And who is to define what is normal or should be accepted? You can't put what you believe on to others.

JORR asked how I'd feel if my husband started wearing makeup. A better question would be how I'd feel if my son did. I wouldn't like that at all. I wouldn't hate him or make fun of him or make him go get help. I also would not take him out shopping and exchange makeup tips with him. I would not agree with it at all, but I would still love him.


When you posted the topic I didn't understand your issue with makeup being marketed to men. If men are going to wear makeup, you can bet there will be someone out there trying to sell it to them. Do you think it's weird for a dude to get a manicure?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

When you posted the topic I didn't understand your issue with makeup being marketed to men. If men are going to wear makeup, you can bet there will be someone out there trying to sell it to them. Do you think it's weird for a dude to get a manicure?


No. Men get manicures all the time.

I was flipping thru "woman's" magazine.
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You've talked about advertising. This ad stopped me. What are they trying to say? Trying to sell? Who's the real audience? Why? Are they trying to encourage a behavior? Is it one that I agree or disagree with? Is it fair?

For the record I am not a fan of facial piercings. They look like they hurt or would bother me.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Honestly, I think I'd have been less startled by RuPaul or Nathan Lane. Maybe it's the age.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

When you posted the topic I didn't understand your issue with makeup being marketed to men. If men are going to wear makeup, you can bet there will be someone out there trying to sell it to them. Do you think it's weird for a dude to get a manicure?


No. Men get manicures all the time.

I was flipping thru "woman's" magazine.
Image
You've talked about advertising. This ad stopped me. What are they trying to say? Trying to sell? Who's the real audience? Why? Are they trying to encourage a behavior? Is it one that I agree or disagree with? Is it fair?

For the record I am not a fan of facial piercings. They look like they hurt or would bother me.



I don't think you can encourage that. If some dude wants to drag himself up, hey, go for it.

I know I'm not the audience, but you might be. His skin looks pretty good. :lol:

And what is it with these younger girls and the eyebrows? It seems like a dark heavy brow is now the thing. Even on a light-haired girl. Maybe especially on a light-haired girl.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The message is about acceptance. Why does it bother you? They aren't telling you to do anything but accept them.


I think we are beyond acceptance, I think everything has to be celebrated and that's what I don't like. They are 2 different things and society is treating it as if they are the same. I can accept, respect, and even love somebody and not agree with what they are doing, lifestyle, and choices they make. That goes on with in my family all the time. If they want me to celebrate their uniqueness they should celebrate my conventionality. And who is to define what is normal or should be accepted? You can't put what you believe on to others.

JORR asked how I'd feel if my husband started wearing makeup. A better question would be how I'd feel if my son did. I wouldn't like that at all. I wouldn't hate him or make fun of him or make him go get help. I also would not take him out shopping and exchange makeup tips with him. I would not agree with it at all, but I would still love him.
It is about acceptance though. If you truly accepted it you would ignore it.

Given that before you didn't think gay people should be able to adopt I don't think you truly are accepting on many of these types of things.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


I don't think you can encourage that. If some dude wants to drag himself up, hey, go for it.

I know I'm not the audience, but you might be. His skin looks pretty good. :lol:

And what is it with these younger girls and the eyebrows? It seems like a dark heavy brow is now the thing. Even on a light-haired girl. Maybe especially on a light-haired girl.


Sure, but you strike me as somebody that's always been comfortable with yourself. Do you feel there were as many people trying to find themselves as when you were that age?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It is about acceptance though. If you truly accepted it you would ignore it.

Given that before you didn't think gay people should be able to adopt I don't think you truly are accepting on many of these types of things.


I think you need a man and a woman to raise a child. We are different and parent differently. Both are equally important. And how would you know which child would be good in which home? I don't know that the effects are and we might not know for some time good and bad but I think it's a huge risk to be taking.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It is about acceptance though. If you truly accepted it you would ignore it.

Given that before you didn't think gay people should be able to adopt I don't think you truly are accepting on many of these types of things.


I think you need a man and a woman to raise a child. We are different and parent differently. Both are equally important. And how would you know which child would be good in which home? I don't know that the effects are and we might not know for some time good and bad but I think it's a huge risk to be taking.


What percentage of children are raised in ideal homes though?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It is about acceptance though. If you truly accepted it you would ignore it.

Given that before you didn't think gay people should be able to adopt I don't think you truly are accepting on many of these types of things.


So just ignore it? If I don't like or agree with something just be quiet?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:19 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It is about acceptance though. If you truly accepted it you would ignore it.

Given that before you didn't think gay people should be able to adopt I don't think you truly are accepting on many of these types of things.


I think you need a man and a woman to raise a child. We are different and parent differently. Both are equally important. And how would you know which child would be good in which home? I don't know that the effects are and we might not know for some time good and bad but I think it's a huge risk to be taking.


What percentage of children are raised in ideal homes though?


What defines an "ideal home"? If we're talking about a black and white, 2 married parents, I can give you several examples of how fucked up that "ideal" truly is.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It is about acceptance though. If you truly accepted it you would ignore it.

Given that before you didn't think gay people should be able to adopt I don't think you truly are accepting on many of these types of things.


I think you need a man and a woman to raise a child. We are different and parent differently. Both are equally important. And how would you know which child would be good in which home? I don't know that the effects are and we might not know for some time good and bad but I think it's a huge risk to be taking.
The only way that works is if you ban all other types of parental households. One dad would be just as bad as two dads.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:20 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It is about acceptance though. If you truly accepted it you would ignore it.

Given that before you didn't think gay people should be able to adopt I don't think you truly are accepting on many of these types of things.


I think you need a man and a woman to raise a child. We are different and parent differently. Both are equally important. And how would you know which child would be good in which home? I don't know that the effects are and we might not know for some time good and bad but I think it's a huge risk to be taking.


What percentage of children are raised in ideal homes though?


What defines an "ideal home"? If we're talking about a black and white, 2 married parents, I can give you several examples of how fucked up that "ideal" truly is.

Racist!!!!!

Oh, you didn't mean it that way.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:21 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

What percentage of children are raised in ideal homes though?


Right and that's a problem, don't you think? Why would you set somebody up in what could be less than ideal?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

What percentage of children are raised in ideal homes though?


Right and that's a problem, don't you think? Why would you set somebody up in what could be less than ideal?

I strongly disagree with you about "ideal homes", but the answer to your last question is quite obviously because there are no better options for MANY.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:29 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:


I don't think you can encourage that. If some dude wants to drag himself up, hey, go for it.

I know I'm not the audience, but you might be. His skin looks pretty good. :lol:

And what is it with these younger girls and the eyebrows? It seems like a dark heavy brow is now the thing. Even on a light-haired girl. Maybe especially on a light-haired girl.


Sure, but you strike me as somebody that's always been comfortable with yourself. Do you feel there were as many people trying to find themselves as when you were that age?



I don't know. I guess a lot of kids have conflicted thoughts about their sexuality. I can't say I ever did. Although now that I'm thinking about it, I did have kind of a crush on this kid Richie Pierson when we were about ten or eleven years old. It wasn't really sexual though. I mean, I didn't want to kiss him. I was really in love with a little dark-eyed girl named Sharon O'Brien. I wouldn't call that a particularly sexual thing either, but there was certainly a spark there of what would come a few years down the road. I've always been crazy about Irish girls. There is a courtyard here in Chicago. Down by the river where no one goes. We could be married there in the courtyard. By this old Spanish priest that no one knows.

I will say that the difference back then was that nobody would talk about this stuff. It's got to be hard to be gay. Even now in 2017. I was busting the balls of a couple of gay friends about the very gay places they always go on vacation. One of the guys said they have to be cognizant of where they're going because they aren't welcome everywhere. That really hit home for me. Such a thing had never occurred to me. That's privilege. That's why I think Milo is taking a lot of undeserved heat for what he said. It can't be the same for a gay kid in high school who is probably in the closet as it is for you and me. I can ask you out and you say no and I sulk and get over it. The gay kid doesn't know who he can ask. He may think another kid is gay, maybe they find each other. But maybe that kid is pretending he's not and it gets ugly. That's where the older guy comes in.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:29 pm 
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And I'm not as strongly against it as Rick would like to portray me as being. I've always said I don't know but I'd lean to the cautious side of no. I think there are questions to be asked. There are a few gay couples we know that I think would be good parents. There are a few that would not be on that list too.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
And I'm not as strongly against it as Rick would like to portray me as being. I've always said I don't know but I'd lean to the cautious side of no. I think there are questions to be asked. There are a few gay couples we know that I think would be good parents. There are a few that would not be on that list too.

It really isn't a nuanced thing. Adoptive patents have to go through extreme vetting already. Gay couples should have to pass the same scrutiny as straight couples.

It's incredibly wrong that many people fight against any gay couple adopting.

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