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Spaulding
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If your gay friends asked you if you thought they should be allowed to adopt what would you say?

Denying rights to gay couples is a big deal. I can bring it up at relevant times. You should be happy to defend your position if you feel it is right to deny gay couples the right to adopt.


Depends on the couple. I don't know that having kids is a right. There really isn't an unselfish reason why somebody would have a kid but the second they are born you have to turn into an unselfish person and lots of people struggle with that, I do. It's no longer about me though.

Thinking about it I do know a gay couple with kids from a previous marriage and they are a mess. They'd have been a mess if the mom stayed hetero. Poor kids. I know gay and straight people I wouldn't let raise a fish.
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Scooter
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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:21 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If your gay friends asked you if you thought they should be allowed to adopt what would you say?

Denying rights to gay couples is a big deal. I can bring it up at relevant times. You should be happy to defend your position if you feel it is right to deny gay couples the right to adopt.


Depends on the couple. I don't know that having kids is a right. There really isn't an unselfish reason why somebody would have a kid but the second they are born you have to turn into an unselfish person and lots of people struggle with that, I do. It's no longer about me though.

Thinking about it I do know a gay couple with kids from a previous marriage and they are a mess. They'd have been a mess if the mom stayed hetero. Poor kids. I know gay and straight people I wouldn't let raise a fish.

So what would you tell your gay friends if they asked?

Adoptive parents go through an extensive screening process.

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pittmike
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:10 am 
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Lt. Col. Frank Slade wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Lt. Col. Frank Slade wrote:
Darkside wrote:
That's great farvio.


Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? Corporal Pittmike? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Rivas and you curse the U.S. Army. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that the removal of Rivas's eyebrow, while tragic, probably saved lives.


I exited an E-5... so to speak. :wink:


I'm a Light Colonel, son. That's O-5. And I was on Lyndon Johnson's staff. I'm busting you back to corporal. Hooah!


:lol:

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pittmike
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:14 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Hockey Gay wrote:
pittmike wrote:
At my past position I worked with a guy named Ron for 18 years. Mostly over phone/email etc so rarely seen. I still do business with that company and "he" is still there. Now though he is Veronica. Without having talked to "her" people would ask me about Veronica and I had to keep on asking who? Nothing wrong with it obviously but just odd to get used to.

I disagree that there is nothing wrong with it. These people are sick in the head. Just because it's being pushed as normal doesn't make it so.

I don't hate trannies but I'm not going to pretend that it's normal.

Someone says they're a tranny or I see one and I go in my head "oh, ok, this person is a fucked up weirdo" and I move on with my day.


I honestly don't feel that this is an unfair statement. They have the right to do whatever, but we all have the right to find it odd.


That is not really true right now is it though? For example, I am live and let live as far as sex/gender, marriage and all the rest. I do however think the over the top gay parades are dumb, over the top and really unnecessary if the point is to prove gay people are just like everyone else. That makes me a pariah to many.

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pittmike
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:17 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's one of the strangest things I've heard that Spaulding thinks gay parents shouldn't be allowed to adopt because her straight married situation isn't ideal.


No what's really strange is you take the smallest most unimportant opinions people have and act as if their life is based on it and that's the totality of life or them as a person. The gay couples we know or have known are childless. If they had kids I'd show up to the shower and birthday parties happy with gifts. If I saw a family at a park or something I wouldn't treat them any differently than I treat any other family. When asked my opinion, no, I don't know if it's the best thing for everybody, but other than when you bring it up like it's some sticking point I give it zero thought and it has no impact on my or anyone else's life. I don't care much about this.

I know my family has trouble with missing a male figure in the house sometimes. It doesn't make much sense to me to set up families without one, same goes for a mother. I don't think I'd have done well in a house with 2 same sex parents, but who knows? It might just depend on the couple. I would think there are both sides. Some people that grew up in a same sex household would be for it and some would be against it.

If your gay friends asked you if you thought they should be allowed to adopt what would you say?

Denying rights to gay couples is a big deal. I can bring it up at relevant times. You should be happy to defend your position if you feel it is right to deny gay couples the right to adopt.


Late to the game here and I do not speak for Spaulding but is it not ok and possible to believe gay adoption is not right or the best for a child yet still not deny someone their rights? Many people do not believe in gun ownership but do not take action to prevent others from doing so for example. Again, not speaking for her but you make it seem as if she has taken her opinion and made signs and is organizing marches in front of the adoption offices.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:21 am 
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Why would you believe being adopted by a gay couple isn't right or what's best for a child?

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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:29 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's one of the strangest things I've heard that Spaulding thinks gay parents shouldn't be allowed to adopt because her straight married situation isn't ideal.


No what's really strange is you take the smallest most unimportant opinions people have and act as if their life is based on it and that's the totality of life or them as a person. The gay couples we know or have known are childless. If they had kids I'd show up to the shower and birthday parties happy with gifts. If I saw a family at a park or something I wouldn't treat them any differently than I treat any other family. When asked my opinion, no, I don't know if it's the best thing for everybody, but other than when you bring it up like it's some sticking point I give it zero thought and it has no impact on my or anyone else's life. I don't care much about this.

I know my family has trouble with missing a male figure in the house sometimes. It doesn't make much sense to me to set up families without one, same goes for a mother. I don't think I'd have done well in a house with 2 same sex parents, but who knows? It might just depend on the couple. I would think there are both sides. Some people that grew up in a same sex household would be for it and some would be against it.

If your gay friends asked you if you thought they should be allowed to adopt what would you say?

Denying rights to gay couples is a big deal. I can bring it up at relevant times. You should be happy to defend your position if you feel it is right to deny gay couples the right to adopt.


Late to the game here and I do not speak for Spaulding but is it not ok and possible to believe gay adoption is not right or the best for a child yet still not deny someone their rights? Many people do not believe in gun ownership but do not take action to prevent others from doing so for example. Again, not speaking for her but you make it seem as if she has taken her opinion and made signs and is organizing marches in front of the adoption offices.

Just because she isn't actively fighting against gay adoption doesn't mean she is free from criticism of her thinking it is good to deny a right to gay people.

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pittmike
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:32 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's one of the strangest things I've heard that Spaulding thinks gay parents shouldn't be allowed to adopt because her straight married situation isn't ideal.


No what's really strange is you take the smallest most unimportant opinions people have and act as if their life is based on it and that's the totality of life or them as a person. The gay couples we know or have known are childless. If they had kids I'd show up to the shower and birthday parties happy with gifts. If I saw a family at a park or something I wouldn't treat them any differently than I treat any other family. When asked my opinion, no, I don't know if it's the best thing for everybody, but other than when you bring it up like it's some sticking point I give it zero thought and it has no impact on my or anyone else's life. I don't care much about this.

I know my family has trouble with missing a male figure in the house sometimes. It doesn't make much sense to me to set up families without one, same goes for a mother. I don't think I'd have done well in a house with 2 same sex parents, but who knows? It might just depend on the couple. I would think there are both sides. Some people that grew up in a same sex household would be for it and some would be against it.

If your gay friends asked you if you thought they should be allowed to adopt what would you say?

Denying rights to gay couples is a big deal. I can bring it up at relevant times. You should be happy to defend your position if you feel it is right to deny gay couples the right to adopt.


Late to the game here and I do not speak for Spaulding but is it not ok and possible to believe gay adoption is not right or the best for a child yet still not deny someone their rights? Many people do not believe in gun ownership but do not take action to prevent others from doing so for example. Again, not speaking for her but you make it seem as if she has taken her opinion and made signs and is organizing marches in front of the adoption offices.

Just because she isn't actively fighting against gay adoption doesn't mean she is free from criticism of her thinking it is good to deny a right to gay people.



Fair enough. I just didn't recall say they can't do it just that they shouldn't. As is said in some other subjects she has no power to deny that right.

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pittmike
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:34 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Why would you believe being adopted by a gay couple isn't right or what's best for a child?


IDK as I do not have a problem with it. As Rick said the screening is the same. Why does anyone believe anything?

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JORR
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:35 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Just because she isn't actively fighting against gay adoption doesn't mean she is free from criticism of her thinking it is good to deny a right to gay people.


I don't believe she has advocated denying such a "right". I think her position is that a family of two opposite sex parents raising children is the ideal.

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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:36 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's one of the strangest things I've heard that Spaulding thinks gay parents shouldn't be allowed to adopt because her straight married situation isn't ideal.


No what's really strange is you take the smallest most unimportant opinions people have and act as if their life is based on it and that's the totality of life or them as a person. The gay couples we know or have known are childless. If they had kids I'd show up to the shower and birthday parties happy with gifts. If I saw a family at a park or something I wouldn't treat them any differently than I treat any other family. When asked my opinion, no, I don't know if it's the best thing for everybody, but other than when you bring it up like it's some sticking point I give it zero thought and it has no impact on my or anyone else's life. I don't care much about this.

I know my family has trouble with missing a male figure in the house sometimes. It doesn't make much sense to me to set up families without one, same goes for a mother. I don't think I'd have done well in a house with 2 same sex parents, but who knows? It might just depend on the couple. I would think there are both sides. Some people that grew up in a same sex household would be for it and some would be against it.

If your gay friends asked you if you thought they should be allowed to adopt what would you say?

Denying rights to gay couples is a big deal. I can bring it up at relevant times. You should be happy to defend your position if you feel it is right to deny gay couples the right to adopt.


Late to the game here and I do not speak for Spaulding but is it not ok and possible to believe gay adoption is not right or the best for a child yet still not deny someone their rights? Many people do not believe in gun ownership but do not take action to prevent others from doing so for example. Again, not speaking for her but you make it seem as if she has taken her opinion and made signs and is organizing marches in front of the adoption offices.

Just because she isn't actively fighting against gay adoption doesn't mean she is free from criticism of her thinking it is good to deny a right to gay people.



Fair enough. I just didn't recall say they can't do it just that they shouldn't. As is said in some other subjects she has no power to deny that right.
I believe she said that before and she certainly hasn't corrected me on that. In fact she just got mad I brought up the fact that she doesn't think gay people should be allowed to adopt rather than saying I was wrong that she thought that.

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W_Z
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:37 am 
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TurnTo wrote:
I'd rather kids get adopted by gay parents, or a single parent, than remain in the system. The state makes a lousy parent.


think about how it started. the poor kid has to be adopted because of a shitty situation to start with. the fact is, whatever the reason, the mother couldn't care for the child. whether or not that's the mother's fault, it's a pretty challenging start to life for the child.

it's going to take a generation or so to see how gay couples fare in raising children, because it's a relatively new opportunity. i think they should be given the same fair shake as a straight couple. both have the chance to be great parents, both have the chance to suck at parenting. it's a crap shoot but they should all be given the opportunity.
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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:38 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Why would you believe being adopted by a gay couple isn't right or what's best for a child?


IDK as I do not have a problem with it. As Rick said the screening is the same. Why does anyone believe anything?


Well I was interested to see if maybe someone had a reason other than because it makes me uncomfortable.

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JORR
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:44 am 
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W_Z wrote:
TurnTo wrote:
I'd rather kids get adopted by gay parents, or a single parent, than remain in the system. The state makes a lousy parent.


think about how it started. the poor kid has to be adopted because of a shitty situation to start with. the fact is, whatever the reason, the mother couldn't care for the child. whether or not that's the mother's fault, it's a pretty challenging start to life for the child.

it's going to take a generation or so to see how gay couples fare in raising children, because it's a relatively new opportunity. i think they should be given the same fair shake as a straight couple. both have the chance to be great parents, both have the chance to suck at parenting. it's a crap shoot but they should all be given the opportunity.



I don't think it's a question of the individual abilities of people as parents. There are plenty of straight married couples who are shitty parents.

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W_Z
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:47 am 
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up until recently, there only could be shitty straight parents.
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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:47 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Just because she isn't actively fighting against gay adoption doesn't mean she is free from criticism of her thinking it is good to deny a right to gay people.


I don't believe she has advocated denying such a "right". I think her position is that a family of two opposite sex parents raising children is the ideal.
http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2600236#p2600236
http://chicagofanatics.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=47&p=2600644

She's also had plenty of chances to correct me and she has not chosen to do so even going so far as to not answer the question on whether she would tell her gay couple friends that she thinks they should be able to adopt.

So, we'll settle this the easy way. Spaulding can correct me that she does in fact think gay couples should be allowed to adopt using the same standards that straight couples have.

Of course it isn't ideal. Adoption isn't ideal either. Single parent households aren't ideal. Grandparents raising kids isn't ideal. Spaulding even says her situation isn't ideal. It doesn't mean we should ban any of those things.

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Spaulding
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:07 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I believe she said that before and she certainly hasn't corrected me on that. In fact she just got mad I brought up the fact that she doesn't think gay people should be allowed to adopt rather than saying I was wrong that she thought that.


I got mad? Are you nuts? I don't feel strongly on this either way to get mad.

I did answer your question. A lot of it depends on the couple.

W_Z wrote:
TurnTo wrote:
I'd rather kids get adopted by gay parents, or a single parent, than remain in the system. The state makes a lousy parent.


think about how it started. the poor kid has to be adopted because of a shitty situation to start with. the fact is, whatever the reason, the mother couldn't care for the child. whether or not that's the mother's fault, it's a pretty challenging start to life for the child.

it's going to take a generation or so to see how gay couples fare in raising children, because it's a relatively new opportunity. i think they should be given the same fair shake as a straight couple. both have the chance to be great parents, both have the chance to suck at parenting. it's a crap shoot but they should all be given the opportunity.


I understand what both you are saying but I think it's a risk.
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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:11 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
I got mad? Are you nuts? I don't feel strongly on this either way to get mad.
You complained about me even bringing it up.

Spaulding wrote:
I did answer your question. A lot of it depends on the couple.
This is the problem. That isn't an answer that satisfies the question as it is too vague.

Do you think that if a gay couple passes the same screening process as a straight couple that they should be allowed to adopt?

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:13 am 
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Is this the 1940s? Pretty sure any kid would take willing, gay parents over remaining property of the state. I'm sure that, on par, there are less shitty gay parents because they actualy WANT the child and have to go through extreme measures to get them.

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Lt. Col. Frank Slade wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Lt. Col. Frank Slade wrote:
Darkside wrote:
That's great farvio.


Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? Corporal Pittmike? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Rivas and you curse the U.S. Army. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that the removal of Rivas's eyebrow, while tragic, probably saved lives.

This...
This is all wrong man.



HOOAH!

:lol:

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:17 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I believe she said that before and she certainly hasn't corrected me on that. In fact she just got mad I brought up the fact that she doesn't think gay people should be allowed to adopt rather than saying I was wrong that she thought that.


I got mad? Are you nuts? I don't feel strongly on this either way to get mad.

I did answer your question. A lot of it depends on the couple.

W_Z wrote:
TurnTo wrote:
I'd rather kids get adopted by gay parents, or a single parent, than remain in the system. The state makes a lousy parent.


think about how it started. the poor kid has to be adopted because of a shitty situation to start with. the fact is, whatever the reason, the mother couldn't care for the child. whether or not that's the mother's fault, it's a pretty challenging start to life for the child.

it's going to take a generation or so to see how gay couples fare in raising children, because it's a relatively new opportunity. i think they should be given the same fair shake as a straight couple. both have the chance to be great parents, both have the chance to suck at parenting. it's a crap shoot but they should all be given the opportunity.


I understand what both you are saying but I think it's a risk.


Why is it a risk?

Or maybe more importantly, is it any more of a risk than 2 straight parents adopting?

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Spaulding
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
You complained about me even bringing it up.

This is the problem. That isn't an answer that satisfies the question as it is too vague.

Do you think that if a gay couple passes the same screening process as a straight couple that they should be allowed to adopt?


Because you bring up past discussions that aren't pertinent to current discussions and try to weave them together in some game of gotcha that only you are playing.

That problem sounds like your problem not mine.
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Brick
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So no answer....

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Spaulding
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Spaulding wrote:

I understand what both you are saying but I think it's a risk.


Why is it a risk?

Or maybe more importantly, is it any more of a risk than 2 straight parents adopting?


In today's world I don't know. As others have said there are a lot of shitty parents out there. Parenting isn't about what the parent wants and a home should be the best environment for the child.
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leashyourkids
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Spaulding wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Spaulding wrote:

I understand what both you are saying but I think it's a risk.


Why is it a risk?

Or maybe more importantly, is it any more of a risk than 2 straight parents adopting?


In today's world I don't know. As others have said there are a lot of shitty parents out there. Parenting isn't about what the parent wants and a home should be the best environment for the child.


If you believe there are risks associated with having gay parents, why don't you just say what they are? You've already made it clear that they shouldn't be allowed.

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Spaulding
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So no answer....


It's not one you want or think you deserve. Don't worry you can bring it up in the future and claim some sort of Rick victory and throw your self a party.
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Brick
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Spaulding wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So no answer....


It's not one you want or think you deserve. Don't worry you can bring it up in the future and claim some sort of Rick victory and throw your self a party.
Clearly not mad....

If you don't want to answer that is fine but don't pretend you did answer and also be prepared that I am going to take an educated guess on your answer.

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JORR
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:44 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Is this the 1940s? Pretty sure any kid would take willing, gay parents over remaining property of the state. I'm sure that, on par, there are less shitty gay parents because they actualy WANT the child and have to go through extreme measures to get them.


That's it right there. It's not a choice between living with Ozzie and Harriet. Frankly, there's only one real answer- more abortions.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:53 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Spaulding wrote:

I understand what both you are saying but I think it's a risk.


Why is it a risk?

Or maybe more importantly, is it any more of a risk than 2 straight parents adopting?


In today's world I don't know. As others have said there are a lot of shitty parents out there. Parenting isn't about what the parent wants and a home should be the best environment for the child.


What about parents being gay makes it a risk that they wouldn't make their home the best environment they can for a child?

If it's simply "I'm uncomfortable with the idea of gay parents having kids", then we'll just disagree and move on.

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