Except at challenging a HOF pitcher who went speedbag on his noggin.

First base is always stacked with players so it becomes harder to be that top 2-3 player at your position in your era or whatever the criteria is. Third base seems weaker as people have to play a modicum of defense to not get dumped into the outfield. Either way neither really come close to sniffing the Hall.

Ventura was a much better player. any oaf can play 1B.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

No

Big Frank proved that.

Ventura was a whiz at 3b for a lot of years, athletic enough to contribute on the base paths. His career OPS+ was 114.

Konerko completely sucked at 1b, couldn't outrun a fucking sloth. His career OPS+ was 118.

If you adjust for the 1,000 more PA's that Konerko got, the only real counting stat that he has over Ventura is HRs.

I hope everyone here realizes that there is no White Sox player that will be going into the Hall Of Fame after Thomas. Nobody has been good enough. Even the entire World Series team. The fanbase cannot be this delusional. There are many "very goods", but no Hall Of Famers. Your best hope is the anti-roids era keeps going and it makes the Sox players look better.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

What do you mean by White Sox player? Thome clubbed 134 of his 612 dingers while he was on the White Sox. He doesn't get into the Hall without those bombs.

At no point in konerkos career was he even the best 1st baseman.
Very good.
Not hof quality.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I know the thread title began with Rizzo but this should have been placed in the White Sox section.

OK, that is a good edge case. I would listen to an argument, but I still don't think he is in. I don't have enough top five years from him. But the longevity is there -- I wouldn't be upset if he gets in, but I see a lot of really productive years and not enough HOF stuff. He is pretty close to the edge, but the DH years might hurt.

Edit: Looking some more, I might give you this one. But no other White Sox qualify.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

Well, there is a current one-time Sock who will make the Hall, but they traded him for Javy Baez's younger clone.

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I know you just became a Cub fan in 2016 but Moncada's and Barz's OBPs are significantly different. Seems like a bad comp.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yup

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I see how you could come to that conclusion from a single statistic.

You might want to check Moncada's original thread where Sox fans were drawing the comparison, not me.

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Konerko is an all time White Sox great, and deserved to have his number retired. Same with the Cubs and Mark Grace. Awesome careers, but neither are HOF worthy.

I think if Vechura didn't break his leg in Spring Training, he might have had a HOF career.

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Konerko will be a better manager.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

As we sit right here today, Konerko is already a better manager than Ventura.

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I wouldn't put him in, but I think he'll get in. "Good guy" factor. Still, I consider him a roider and I'd look at his numbers within the same context as I look at Sosa's or Juan Gonzales'. I could never consider Thome better than Albert Belle. And I would never consider either one a White Sox.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

If thome gets in the HOF, it's as an Indian.

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1. Thome was much better for a much longer time than Sosa and Juan Gonzalez, it isn't even close. I mean it isn't hard to figure out some of the clear reasons why. Thome walked 1,700+ times in his career. Sosa and Gonzalez combined walked 1,400 times.

2. I don't consider Thome better than Willie Mays, but that doesn't mean Thome shouldn't be in the Hall. Albert Belle has his very own legitimate HOF argument, and it has nothing to do with Thome nor vice versa.

Thome gets in easily

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You don't walk your way into the Hall of Fame. If we're ignoring steroids Sosa easily goes in before Thome. And of course Albert Belle relates to Thome and anyone else in the Hall of Fame. You put a guy like Andre Dawson in, I'm going to have to argue for Harold Baines. The next thing you know we're arguing about whether Luis Gonzales is a Hall of Famer.

One would think 600 homers gets a guy in- 500 used to- but all the standards went out the window with the juicers.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I'll start the bidding at Raines, Timothy.

Not sure what you are driving at here.

Pick the Hall of Famer

Guy A: 600+ Homers, 1600+ RBI, 2400+ hits, slash line of .273/.344/.534

Guy B: 600+ Homers, 1600+ RBI, 2300+ hits, slash line of .276/.402/.554

It's not even close really.

Well you can argue about anything because if you are obstinate.

Dawson, even as a borderline HOF player, has 2x the WAR of Baines.

Stop, it's silly at this point.

Didn't he also play through an entire season with a bad wrist?

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As others have said, I wouldn't put Konerko in the Hall of Fame, but he's right there in that next tier.

The thing with Rizzo is that he will be in a lineup where he can't be pitched around, probably for years to come. If Russell ends up hitting after him, and Russell continues to improve as some are projecting, would you assume he ends up with inflated numbers as a result?

Related article of Russell moving to the four spot in the lineup:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/03/03/levine-addison-russell-could-be-cubs-cleanup-hitter-of-the-future/

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Bryant will be a HOFer if he stays healthy. We haven't seen the best from him yet and he's already won ROY and MVP in his first 2 seasons. Rizzo gets consideration after a few more really good years. Konerko.....no. Real nice career, but had too many meh years to be in the HOF.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Raines is not in the Hall because of walks. He was the most effective base stealer in history. You seem to be advocating for consideration of Eddie Yost and Max Bishop to the Hall though.




I'll take the guy who played four seasons less and hit 60 or more homers three times. Is there anyone else who ever did that?




They're very close as players. It's very easy to make the case that Baines was a better offensive player. Of course, Dawson is going to have a higher WAR because WAR vastly overvalues defense, particularly on the outfield corners. The only thing that's silly is WAR zombies.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don