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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Panther pislA wrote:
Welp, again it looks like Infowars and Bannon/Breitbart were spot-on.

Its no longer "theory" if there is actually a conspiracy afoot.

Found this interesting as well:

Why Dems will regret a probe into Russian election hacking


Why would this be a problem?

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I also need to say, I find it absolutely hilarious that someone with a Malcolm X avatar is supporting government surveillance, especially when it was used against him (and other Civil Rights leaders) by our "benevolent" government during their lifetimes... Oh the irony


It would be if I was supporting the government illegally spying on citizens while they play with themselves in front of their television. Since that isn't the case what's the next step? How do we destroy this country? What's the end game?

Not destroy the country, destroy the institutions. It would be nice if instead of having a million people walking around in pussy hats, that instead they could barricade the gates at CIA or the NSA to let them know we're fed up. Congress has the power to neuter these agencies and a movement like that could get the message spread as you will find sympathetic ears on both sides of the aisle. When Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders agree on an issue, you know the situation is fucked.

You're also being foolishly naïve if you don't believe our government is using these powers to bulk collect data of citizens without a warrant. We know they already did this in PRISM.


Everyone is collecting data. Of course the government is too. Are you a cash only type of guy? If not every time you swipe your card that data is collected and sold. Every time you search something or visit a website data is collected. This is the world we live in.

There is a difference between willingly using a service and providing them information than being surveilled against my will by an entity I never consented to. If I use google, I do so knowing I'm giving them info in exchange for the service. If I wish, I can use a service such as Tor and not have Google or any other service track me.

I can also use services such as WhatsApp or Signal for messaging, but sadly this leak reveals the CIA cracked that one (along with other encrypted services).

I guess I have a problem with my tax dollars being used to fund restrictions of my personal rights. You cannot compare this to willingly providing info to a company that provides a service at no charge. I'm receiving no real service for this CIA and NSA snooping.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I also need to say, I find it absolutely hilarious that someone with a Malcolm X avatar is supporting government surveillance, especially when it was used against him (and other Civil Rights leaders) by our "benevolent" government during their lifetimes... Oh the irony


It would be if I was supporting the government illegally spying on citizens while they play with themselves in front of their television. Since that isn't the case what's the next step? How do we destroy this country? What's the end game?

Not destroy the country, destroy the institutions. It would be nice if instead of having a million people walking around in pussy hats, that instead they could barricade the gates at CIA or the NSA to let them know we're fed up. Congress has the power to neuter these agencies and a movement like that could get the message spread as you will find sympathetic ears on both sides of the aisle. When Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders agree on an issue, you know the situation is fucked.

You're also being foolishly naïve if you don't believe our government is using these powers to bulk collect data of citizens without a warrant. We know they already did this in PRISM.


Everyone is collecting data. Of course the government is too. Are you a cash only type of guy? If not every time you swipe your card that data is collected and sold. Every time you search something or visit a website data is collected. This is the world we live in.

There is a difference between willingly using a service and providing them information than being surveilled against my will by an entity I never consented to. If I use google, I do so knowing I'm giving them info in exchange for the service. If I wish, I can use a service such as Tor and not have Google or any other service track me.

I can also use services such as WhatsApp or Signal for messaging, but sadly this leak reveals the CIA cracked that one (along with other encrypted services).

I guess I have a problem with my tax dollars being used to fund restrictions of my personal rights. You cannot compare this to willingly providing info to a company that provides a service at no charge.


Did you give consent to have the data from your purchases sold?

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I also need to say, I find it absolutely hilarious that someone with a Malcolm X avatar is supporting government surveillance, especially when it was used against him (and other Civil Rights leaders) by our "benevolent" government during their lifetimes... Oh the irony


It would be if I was supporting the government illegally spying on citizens while they play with themselves in front of their television. Since that isn't the case what's the next step? How do we destroy this country? What's the end game?

Not destroy the country, destroy the institutions. It would be nice if instead of having a million people walking around in pussy hats, that instead they could barricade the gates at CIA or the NSA to let them know we're fed up. Congress has the power to neuter these agencies and a movement like that could get the message spread as you will find sympathetic ears on both sides of the aisle. When Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders agree on an issue, you know the situation is fucked.

You're also being foolishly naïve if you don't believe our government is using these powers to bulk collect data of citizens without a warrant. We know they already did this in PRISM.


Everyone is collecting data. Of course the government is too. Are you a cash only type of guy? If not every time you swipe your card that data is collected and sold. Every time you search something or visit a website data is collected. This is the world we live in.

There is a difference between willingly using a service and providing them information than being surveilled against my will by an entity I never consented to. If I use google, I do so knowing I'm giving them info in exchange for the service. If I wish, I can use a service such as Tor and not have Google or any other service track me.

I can also use services such as WhatsApp or Signal for messaging, but sadly this leak reveals the CIA cracked that one (along with other encrypted services).

I guess I have a problem with my tax dollars being used to fund restrictions of my personal rights. You cannot compare this to willingly providing info to a company that provides a service at no charge.


Did you give consent to have the data from your purchases sold?

If I used those services, but I use Tor and an SSL VPN so I don't really have a problem with that. There are workarounds to anyone who doesn't want their data collected by a company. Not so with the government.

Google can't activate my webcam and microphone. CIA can

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
If I used those services, but I use Tor and an SSL VPN so I don't really have a problem with that. There are workarounds to anyone who doesn't want their data collected by a company. Not so with the government.

Google can't activate my webcam and microphone. CIA can


You're completely wrong about your debit and credit card information. It's not even the stores who are collecting or selling the data.

You know who else can activate your webcam? A foreign government or some 400lb kid in his basement. Both are more likely to happen than President Trump ordering someone to watch you.

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Ogie Oglethorpe
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
If I used those services, but I use Tor and an SSL VPN so I don't really have a problem with that. There are workarounds to anyone who doesn't want their data collected by a company. Not so with the government.

Google can't activate my webcam and microphone. CIA can


You're completely wrong about your debit and credit card information. It's not even the stores who are collecting or selling the data.

You know who else can activate your webcam? A foreign government or some 400lb kid in his basement. Both are more likely to happen than President Trump ordering someone to watch you.

Do you not find it problematic that we are ceding these rights to a government that is supposed to be serving us?

There is a very big difference between a foreign government spying on a citizen of another country and the country that is supposed to be representing and serving me spying on me. Especially when we have a document that is supposed to guarantee that certain rights aren't infringed.

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denisdman
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Ogie, you've been spot on. We've lost the battle against big brother.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:19 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Ogie, you've been spot on. We've lost the battle against big brother.


Yes.

The masses value the illusion of safety more than they do their privacy.

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Nas wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
If I used those services, but I use Tor and an SSL VPN so I don't really have a problem with that. There are workarounds to anyone who doesn't want their data collected by a company. Not so with the government.

Google can't activate my webcam and microphone. CIA can


You're completely wrong about your debit and credit card information. It's not even the stores who are collecting or selling the data.

You know who else can activate your webcam? A foreign government or some 400lb kid in his basement. Both are more likely to happen than President Trump ordering someone to watch you.

Do you not find it problematic that we are ceding these rights to a government that is supposed to be serving us?

There is a very big difference between a foreign government spying on a citizen of another country and the country that is supposed to be representing and serving me spying on me. Especially when we have a document that is supposed to guarantee that certain rights aren't infringed.


We aren't ceding anything. Unless you turn the clocks back 30 years this is the world we live in. Your credit and debit card metadata is collected without your permission for target marketing and no one complain or call for their banks to be shut down. This shows that you don't really care about your rights being violated. If you did your money would be under your matress and you would avoid most technology.

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Seacrest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:26 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Not a problem. I trust James Clapper.



Me too...

Another profound revelation is that the CIA can engage in "false flag" cyberattacks which portray Russia as the assailant. Discussing the CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group, Wikileaks' source notes that it "collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.


Is there a reason why you omit citing sources?

Habit.


:lol: :lol:

Wikileaks is in bold.

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Seacrest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Ogie, you've been spot on. We've lost the battle against big brother.


Yes.

The masses value the illusion of safety more than they do their privacy.



Well said.

Comparing violations of personal privacy to a credit card transaction is proof positive of that.

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I can't believe that people here who are against Trump are for the government having these capabilities. Do you not see how they can easily be abused?



People don't care. We lived in a state of fear long before Trump became President. He is now a convenient scapegoat for the rights they tossed away like Halloween candy over the last 20 years. They come here day after day to blame Trump, rather than look in a mirror and take accountability for what they have so willingly taken part in.

The absolute refusal to acknowledge JORR's repeated examples here of this behavior is Exhibit A.


Yes everyone comes here and complains that Trump is behaving like W or Obama. Anymore excuses?


I think it's cute that you believe the government actually gets warrants for everything and that the NSA doesn't listen to personal phone calls. My grand kids still believe in the tooth fairy too.


I'm not surprised that you are on board with the Trump conspiracy. You were/are a birrher too. I imagine that you also believe that 5 million illegals voted too. Talk about believing in fairytales. Have you located the article about Obama shutting the White House lights off on election day?


Bump

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Hypothetical violations of privacy vs actual violation of privacy. Is it okay to criticize President Trump yet?

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Seacrest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:04 pm 
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The former AG said there was surveillance. You posted that it I believe.

I never mentioned a Trump conspiracy or anything about a birther movement.

I never said there was an article.

So, if just flat out making up ad hominem arguments isn't enough for you, then comparing the NSA's spying on private citizens to a credit card transaction is probably a good time to walk away from any serious discussion of privacy rights.

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denisdman
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[quote="Nas] Is it okay to criticize President Trump yet?[/quote]

MANY are building their brands on it.

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Seacrest
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denisdman wrote:
[quote="Nas] Is it okay to criticize President Trump yet?[/quote]

MANY are building their brands on it.[/quote]


MANY false things said about our POTUS.

Very sad. Very unfair.

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
The former AG said there was surveillance. You posted that it I believe.

I never mentioned a Trump conspiracy or anything about a birther movement.

I never said there was an article.

So, if just flat out making up ad hominem arguments isn't enough for you, then comparing the NSA's spying on private citizens to a credit card transaction is probably a good time to walk away from any serious discussion of privacy rights.


No one said their was surveillance on Trump. In fact they even said that there was no proof of collusion with the president and Russia.

Your comment about surveillance without a warrant appeared to an argument for "the president isn't lying about Obama". You were on the birther train. MANY were/are including the president.

IIRC the NSA collected data. They didn't actually spy of you or I. They didn't sell the data either. IF this is entirely about privacy then all of you would be equally pissed about pissed about financial institutions or tech companies collecting and selling your data for marketing purposes WITHOUT your permission. Hating the government is in though.

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Nas
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denisdman wrote:
Nas wrote:
Is it okay to criticize President Trump yet?


MANY are building their brands on it.


The market is saturated. You need a unique niche or Trump like guy.

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Don Tiny
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Snowden is a traitor. He's not a whistle blower. He should be in prison. The more stuff that comes out makes that clear as well as a little commonsense. Of course people hate and distrust their own government so much that they'll believe anything that feeds their cynicism.


Should Bradley Manning be in prison?

For how he/she/it looked in that one awful b&w photo, yes.

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Nas
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Snowden is a traitor. He's not a whistle blower. He should be in prison. The more stuff that comes out makes that clear as well as a little commonsense. Of course people hate and distrust their own government so much that they'll believe anything that feeds their cynicism.


Should Bradley Manning be in prison?


No

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WaitingforRuffcorn
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:10 pm 
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This story is already off of the top of the news websites. It seems to me like this should be something people demand accountability for.

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long time guy
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Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The former AG said there was surveillance. You posted that it I believe.

I never mentioned a Trump conspiracy or anything about a birther movement.

I never said there was an article.

So, if just flat out making up ad hominem arguments isn't enough for you, then comparing the NSA's spying on private citizens to a credit card transaction is probably a good time to walk away from any serious discussion of privacy rights.


No one said their was surveillance on Trump. In fact they even said that there was no proof of collusion with the president and Russia.

Your comment about surveillance without a warrant appeared to an argument for "the president isn't lying about Obama". You were on the birther train. MANY were/are including the president.

IIRC the NSA collected data. They didn't actually spy of you or I. They didn't sell the data either. IF this is entirely about privacy then all of you would be equally pissed about pissed about financial institutions or tech companies collecting and selling your data for marketing purposes WITHOUT your permission. Hating the government is in though.



Many of the same hypocrites pontificating about constitutional rights have no problem when the Constitutional rights of Muslims are trampled upon. Where is the outrage when that occurs?

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Nas wrote:
Did you give consent to have the data from your purchases sold?


Come on, Nas, "reasonable expectation of privacy". When asking Alexa how to best roll a blunt, you have a reasonable expectation that such question will not be turned into an "anonymous tip" for a probable cause warrant to search your home for your stash.

Such an expectation is unreasonable when applied to purchases at a public business.
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WaitingforRuffcorn
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The former AG said there was surveillance. You posted that it I believe.

I never mentioned a Trump conspiracy or anything about a birther movement.

I never said there was an article.

So, if just flat out making up ad hominem arguments isn't enough for you, then comparing the NSA's spying on private citizens to a credit card transaction is probably a good time to walk away from any serious discussion of privacy rights.


No one said their was surveillance on Trump. In fact they even said that there was no proof of collusion with the president and Russia.

Your comment about surveillance without a warrant appeared to an argument for "the president isn't lying about Obama". You were on the birther train. MANY were/are including the president.

IIRC the NSA collected data. They didn't actually spy of you or I. They didn't sell the data either. IF this is entirely about privacy then all of you would be equally pissed about pissed about financial institutions or tech companies collecting and selling your data for marketing purposes WITHOUT your permission. Hating the government is in though.



Many of the same hypocrites pontificating about constitutional rights have no problem when the Constitutional rights of Muslims are trampled upon. Where is the outrage when that occurs?


What are you even talking about? Muslims is your take away from this?

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:55 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The former AG said there was surveillance. You posted that it I believe.

I never mentioned a Trump conspiracy or anything about a birther movement.

I never said there was an article.

So, if just flat out making up ad hominem arguments isn't enough for you, then comparing the NSA's spying on private citizens to a credit card transaction is probably a good time to walk away from any serious discussion of privacy rights.


No one said their was surveillance on Trump. In fact they even said that there was no proof of collusion with the president and Russia.

Your comment about surveillance without a warrant appeared to an argument for "the president isn't lying about Obama". You were on the birther train. MANY were/are including the president.

IIRC the NSA collected data. They didn't actually spy of you or I. They didn't sell the data either. IF this is entirely about privacy then all of you would be equally pissed about pissed about financial institutions or tech companies collecting and selling your data for marketing purposes WITHOUT your permission. Hating the government is in though.



Many of the same hypocrites pontificating about constitutional rights have no problem when the Constitutional rights of Muslims are trampled upon. Where is the outrage when that occurs?


It wasn't long ago that MANY loved these institutions. Now that the president hates them MANY are jumping on the hate train. "Burn it down to the ground!" Of course we all dislike some actions taken by our government. I complained for years about Obama committing war crimes but I didn't want to abolish the military or destroy the country.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
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Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Snowden is a traitor. He's not a whistle blower. He should be in prison. The more stuff that comes out makes that clear as well as a little commonsense. Of course people hate and distrust their own government so much that they'll believe anything that feeds their cynicism.


Should Bradley Manning be in prison?


No


Manning and Snowden committed the same crimes. What's worse, Manning's original few instances of treason did little to raise awareness about extrajudicial spying on American citizens.
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WaitingforRuffcorn
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Nas wrote:
It wasn't long ago that MANY loved these institutions. Now that the president hates them MANY are jumping on the hate train. "Burn it down to the ground!" Of course we all dislike some actions taken by our government. I complained for years about Obama committing war crimes but I didn't want to abolish the military or destroy the country.


To be fair, Libertarians have been saying this before Trump.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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Seacrest
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:58 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The former AG said there was surveillance. You posted that it I believe.

I never mentioned a Trump conspiracy or anything about a birther movement.

I never said there was an article.

So, if just flat out making up ad hominem arguments isn't enough for you, then comparing the NSA's spying on private citizens to a credit card transaction is probably a good time to walk away from any serious discussion of privacy rights.


No one said their was surveillance on Trump. In fact they even said that there was no proof of collusion with the president and Russia.

Your comment about surveillance without a warrant appeared to an argument for "the president isn't lying about Obama". You were on the birther train. MANY were/are including the president.

IIRC the NSA collected data. They didn't actually spy of you or I. They didn't sell the data either. IF this is entirely about privacy then all of you would be equally pissed about pissed about financial institutions or tech companies collecting and selling your data for marketing purposes WITHOUT your permission. Hating the government is in though.



Many of the same hypocrites pontificating about constitutional rights have no problem when the Constitutional rights of Muslims are trampled upon. Where is the outrage when that occurs?


We are ALL having our rights violated on this country.

If you find it helpful to parse the word all, have at it.

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Nas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Snowden is a traitor. He's not a whistle blower. He should be in prison. The more stuff that comes out makes that clear as well as a little commonsense. Of course people hate and distrust their own government so much that they'll believe anything that feeds their cynicism.


Should Bradley Manning be in prison?


No


Manning and Snowden committed the same crimes. What's worse, Manning's original few instances of treason did little to raise awareness about extrajudicial spying on American citizens.


One was an actual whistle blower and the other took classified information and fled to China and then Russia.

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WaitingforRuffcorn
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:01 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Snowden is a traitor. He's not a whistle blower. He should be in prison. The more stuff that comes out makes that clear as well as a little commonsense. Of course people hate and distrust their own government so much that they'll believe anything that feeds their cynicism.


Should Bradley Manning be in prison?


No


Manning and Snowden committed the same crimes. What's worse, Manning's original few instances of treason did little to raise awareness about extrajudicial spying on American citizens.


One was an actual whistle blower and the other took classified information and fled to China and then Russia.


Because Snowden was smart enough to not go to jail you don't support him? Come on.

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.
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