Alvarez really didn't want Gard but he had his hand forced by Wisconsin going on a fluky run with him.

Wisconsin also had an incredibly veteran team and faltered. Next year could be rough though under Bo those teams always seemed to figure it out.

Bennett just doesn't impress me too much. He has a style that is dying in college basketball and isn't going to consistently do well in the NCAA tournament. I think he can frustrate the better talented teams in the ACC with it though which is probably the ceiling of a place like Virginia.

If I'm throwing nearly $5 million at a basketball coach I don't want it to be a guy like him.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He may have had his hand forced a little, but from what I understand he reached out to Bennett and I believe there was one other and found out they didn't want to come. Then when Gard took them on a run, it made it much easier on him.

_________________
2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

I thought the story was that Bo Ryan didn't think Alvarez would hire his guy so he forced the issue by retiring mid season

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

He had to hire him at that time and for the rest of the year, he didn't have to give him the permanent position. I believe the reason that Bo really retired is because he knew all of that shit was about to come out about his mistress and he didn't want to deal with it while still there coaching.

_________________
2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

You both are seemingly correct. There was a lot of stuff going on.

It was pretty well known that Gard had virtually no shot at the job when Ryan retired. Wisconsin had a miraculous improvement and it is hard at a place like Wisconsin to fire a Sweet Sixteen coach.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

it is a mediocre gig right now. Even Dr Ken the biggest Illini fan around these parts understands the situation.

The Missouri job is mediocre too right now. But if Martin gets Porter, which seems likely at this point, that could change.

Miller does not need to jump to another place this year if the opportunity he wants does not come available. He has a pretty good thing going at Dayton.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

That's a wrong way to look at it. Programs have tradition. You wouldn't say Indiana is a mediocre job right now.

And sure, Miller can wait for one of the handful of jobs that's better than Illinois to open up- Indiana, North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Kentucky, maybe there are a couple more I'm not thinking of- but good luck with that. He may have a shot at Indiana right now. I wouldn't suggest he take Illinois instead.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Indiana is now open for business!!

_________________
2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

While I wouldn't put Indiana in the same mediocre category as Illinois or Mizzou, it is trending in a downward direction. It is clearly not the job that it once was.

Illinois does have some tradition, but that is a long time ago. The same thing is true when they hired Groce. They could not get the guys they really wanted and had to settle for Groce. Of course it was billed as the guy they really wanted all along. But no one believes that.

And the success of schools like Wich St, Gonzaga and Butler over the last few years do not help places like Illinois. There is no reason for guys to jump to a mediocre Big 10 job when they can stay at their place, make the tournament every year and wait for a really good place to open up

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Illinois is a far better job than Missouri.

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You know me like that.

I dont think you can really say that right now.

They just got the coach that your school wanted.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I disagree. Indiana is still as great a job as it ever was and they'll be good again and the Crean years will be forgotten. And a guy can build a nice program at those mid-majors but it isn't like a Big 10 job.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

We knew Illinois wasn't a football school, but now it doesn't feel like a basketball school, either. We're going to have to invent a new sport for them.

_________________

I hope you are right.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

There seem to be a bunch you aren't thinking of.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Falling off balconies.

Who? Don't give me some team that rolls the MAC or WAC each season.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Indiana still hasn't proven they can be elite without Knight. And no, Branch McCracken doesn't count.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The old Millennial "If it happened before I was born, it didn't happen" philosophy!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

In fairness to Brick he is a Purdue guy, they dont understand anything from an elite perspective

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

If we want to include all time stuff Purdue is elite!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They're not top tier elite, but I'm not discounting the Piggy Lambert or Gene Keady eras either. They belong below those very top elite teams with schools like Illinois, Maryland, Florida, Michigan State, etc.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I would need a college hoops guy who isnt an Illini fan like Rick to help me with the list, but it's obviously a much longer list than six teams.

Off the top of my head, Michigan State, Villanova, Syracuse, Georgetown, Louisville, Wisconsin, Arizona, Florida, UConn without a doubt. I'd argue other teams like Michigan, Baylor, Ohio State, USC, Texas, Oregon, Xavier, Maryland, etc. And you said not to include mid majors but I think teams like Gonzaga, Butler, and Wichita State would even be as appealing considering Illinois' lack of recent success. RFDC is right about it not looking good that Missouri got a guy Illinois wanted. The point being, even a die hard Illini fan would have to agree to at least another dozen plus teams beside the six you listed.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Uh, JORR, the players that these schools are trying to recruit.... what generation do you suppose they are?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

All those schools are on the same level as Illinois, in spite of Illinois being in a low period. Even Arizona which is consistently good, is a stepchild to the football program, not to mention being viewed as secondary to UCLA in its own conference.

Michigan State is the one that I think there is a legitimate argument in saying that they may have joined the Kentucky-Indiana-Kansas-UNC-Duke group, but I would argue that a 9-3 MSU football team that loses in the Rose Bowl generates more excitement than an NCAA basketball champion. And that's the case with Illinois too, though they're less likely to achieve it. I think we have to start with basketball being the king if we're discussing really elite jobs. And for schools where it is king like Georgetown and Villanova, they have to have some regional hegemony (Duke being the exception), which those schools don't. That's something the right coach at Illinois should definitely be able to establish.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It's pretty clear you're irrationally biased about Illinois. It's insane to attempt an argument that Illinois is on the same level as Louisville, Arizona, and Uconn.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Are you making the argument that the current coach is all that matters? I'm not saying that isn't important, by the way. A guy like Izzo can establish a program by staying and being consistent over a long period, but that doesn't happen when a guy uses three good seasons at Dayton or Xavier a stepping stone to Ohio State or Indiana.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Only if you're looking at a very short sample. I do think our respective ages have something to do with our viewpoints. For example, one of my friends has a 17 year old kid who is growing up in Boston. He thinks the Red Sox are a better franchise than the Yankees, and in his experience it would be difficult to argue that they aren't.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

No, I'm saying 2005 was 12 years ago. We're getting to the point where Illinois hasn't been a respectable program since potential recruits have been watching and playing basketball. That matters a hell of a lot more than being a decent program in the 1980's does if we are ranking programs.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

2005.

Also, I agree with about half your list.

MSU, Villanova, Louisville, and Arizona for sure are better than Illinois. UConn would be but they are absolutely screwed with the conference situation.

Illinois, just like my own team, doesn't have near enough national success to compare. That doesn't mean they can't get there but potential doesn't mean much.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!