Pretty much.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I thought the Brian Williams deal was really sink or swim actually .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

That Marian Hossa's contract structure, in which cap hit = money/years and can be lowered by adding low values to a set, is considered exploiting a loophole speaks to the fact that the NHL salary cap was designed for people who stopped paying attention to math class in fifth grade. That being said, the NHL's system of a hard cap with guaranteed contracts is more restrictive than what other leagues have. It's also a completely awful system whose flaws have already caused a nearly four-month lockout.

Jerry Krause is clearly the best general manager Chicago has had because, again with the grade-school math, 6 > 3, but who has ever sat around arguing over "best general manager in a city" except us when the guy died?

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Well, the Hossa contract is more exploitative of the cap than anything Krause did. I'm not even sure what Pittmike is talking about. He's acting like the Bulls were paying luxury taxes and using the Bird rule every year. Nothing could be further from the truth.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Didn't the NHL punish or try and punish teams for doing it? I don't know what else is a loophole if signing contracts that you never intend to finish isn't.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

One of my favorite images of Jerry Krause was the Tribune story after he retired that showed him tooling around on his boat and fishing in a manmade pond in the Hybernia subdivision of Highland Park. IIRC, those ponds had no fish in them.

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Technically, the only team to be penalized for circumvention was the Devils, who took the framework of the Zetterberg/Franzen/Luongo/Hossa/Richards/Carter contracts and reduced them to absurdity such that you couldn't even argue he'd play the whole term out as which you could with the other guys. Everyone else is subject to recapture, in which an early retirement sticks you with all the cap hit you had saved to that point, but the NHL considers that honoring the full terms of the contract. Also, even the Devils got off easy on their punishment, because one penalty was to forfeit a first-round draft pick, but then the Devils had just been sold and the new owners needed a favor because the team was losing money and the Kovalchuk shit wasn't their fault, so Bettman just gave them the #30 pick because that's the kind of horseshit league we love.

EDIT: oh, I forgot, of course, Duncan Keith is on a circumventing contract, but knowing Keith he'll not only finish it out but play a few more years.

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I wasn't even making a definitive point the Krause is not the best. I simply said it was easier in the NBA during Krause's time to manage the cap without having to rip apart your team every year. bowman deals with a more restrictive cap that is all. As for the Bulls maybe they were paying tax but they had tools like exceptions and other minor advantages.

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Elections have consequences.

Can you name just one rule or loophole or whatever it is you're talking about? They built those teams as efficiently as one could ask for. Don't you remember how famously underpaid Scottie was? Krause didn't use rule exceptions and loopholes to build those teams any more than Bowman did.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

what/why was the real reason Doug Collins was fired? Waiting over 30 years for someone to tell me the truth.

The NBA CBA is notoriously a byzantine fever dream of accountants with law degrees. Has anyone navigated it better than Krause did?

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RC Buford probably. The cap of the 1990s was much simpler iirc.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Oh, was it the 1999 CBA that made all the salary cap rules so inscrutable? I still don't know what a midlevel exception is.

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That would be an example I would give the terribly argumentative FavreBrick this evening. Also in the second three peat I am going to just assume Krause used some sort of magic to pay one player 25-30 million per year.

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Elections have consequences.

MANY of these changes came after 1998

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I'm not being terribly argumentative at all. I simply asked you to defend your assertion that Krause used loopholes and rule exceptions to build his team. Just because you are unable to back up your opinion with any evidence doesn't mean I'm being argumentative.

What loophole was Krause using to pay Jordan the money you mentioned? I'm simply asking you to name ONE thing Krause exploited. Not really a tough question man.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not paying anyone else. Scottie was making like $2M a year.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

So you are hung up that in my first post that I used loophole rather than mid level exceptions or Larry bird rules etc. You are going to go round and round all fucking night because I believe Bowman deals with a more restrictive cap than Krause did. All this while I never said Krause did anything outside the rules nor did I ever say Bowman is better than Krause. 6 is more than three is my thinking by the way.

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Elections have consequences.

For FF, right in this article it states Krause used the rule that you can go over the cap to pay your own player. MJ took almost all of it.

This is absolutely impossible not only in the NHL but even now in the NBA.

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Elections have consequences.

Yeah, that's the Larry Bird rule. It's not a loophole or exception, nor is it a controversial rule. And I would agree with Rick that it's not any more exploitative than signing a guy to a 15 year contract or whatever it was.

I don't know why you got so annoyed with me for simply asking you to explain your stance. Its OK for people to disagree Mike.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Because you go on and on forever because I said loophole rather than rule. You are worse than the Brady Bunch episode about issuing exact words Marcia. As for Brick and his hang up on the Hossa thing I told him it was the end of that CBA and was closed. Aside from that CH helped to show the cap in hockey is draconian.

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Elections have consequences.

Well, there's a pretty big difference between using a loophole to circumvent the cap and paying a player according to the rules of the cap. Of course I'm going to differentiate between the two.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

FF is giving me Forrest Whitaker eye.

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Elections have consequences.

It takes two to tango. I got Calvin Schiraldi. What more you want?

To me, what he did with the second 3peat was extremely impressive... Much moreso than the first. The first 3peat was just the greatest player ever finding a Robin in Pip and dismantling the league.

When Jordan came back, he wasn't even close to the same player (still the best player in the league, though). But he had one of the greatest assemblances of role players in sports history. Post-injury Ron Harper was a defensive stud. Pip was in his prime. Rodman was amazing as a rebounder and could SUCCESSFULLY guard the three biggest positions. Steve Kerr is one of the greatest shooters ever (waaaaaay better than Pax). Kukoc was an elite bench scorer who could go off at any minute. And Longley was a good passing big man for the triangle and had a big body to bang with guys like Shaq. Shaq still killed him, but Luc was better than most.

Krause put together an absolutely outstanding team with a post-prime Jordan.

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He rebuilt the team on the fly and put a team on the court that should have gone to the Finals without Jordan. Scottie being the 6 highest paid player on the team obviously helped.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Can't remember his name, but I think the Krause-era Bulls had a "capologist" who allegedly knew the system better than anyone.

Tonight Leary listed some of Krause's misdeeds (classy), and one that seemed out of place was the "Pippen contract." I thought that was Reinsdorf's doing. And even if it had been Krause, Pippen was mostly to blame.

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Yup. I think he Shaq-proofed the team by signing Edwards, Parrish, and some other stiffs so we'd have bodies to use against Shaq, and to foul him. Signing Bison Dele worked out I think and he had some other signings that provided relief when Jordan/Pippen didn't have it or were injured.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY