C'mon, you're really putting Thibs in the same category as Popovich?

And if you want to credit Thibs with a playoff victory over the Nets, then you most assuredly have to blame him for the Bull dropping a 1st round series against Philadelphia and much more so for not being able to topple Cleveland when they had no Love and a one legged Irving hobbling around.

This is not a defense of Hoiberg. I think it's obvious he's much more suited to the college game than the NBA one. That being said, this elevation of Tom Thibodeau to the pantheon of all time great coaches just baffles me. At this point, he's a slightly better Scott Skiles.

Agreed. He has a more talented team than this year's Bulls team and their record will be worse. They really aren't that young either. No rookies playing a significant role.

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I am going to respond to MM. But get out of here with that lazy ass bullshit. The west is ten times tougher than the east. That's why the record will be worse but when you take into account the strength of competition Thibs wipes the ass with your boy Hoiberg.

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No it isnt. The West is decidedly better argument is an example of lazy Bullshit. The gap is closing rapidly. This will probably be the last year that it will be better. You must not have been paying attention.

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I also notice that this particular argument is never used when praising the gaudy regular season record enjoyed by Thibs when he coached the Bull. Wasn't that compiled by beating up on weak ass Eastern Conf. teams too. Miami was the only team worth a damn. West was much stronger then than now and conversely East was much weaker.

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Thank you for agreeing the west is better.

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Not 10× better.

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No, I was.admittedly trolling up there. He's not in Popovich's class...Yet. I think you're being unfair by saying he's only a notch above Skiles. Look at his record, his playoff births, and his defensive rankings over his tenure with the Bulls.

I'm with you on Cleveland but not on Philly. Along with the devastating loss of Rose I think they also lost Noah if I'm not mistaken later on that series. Everyone knew their season was over once rose went down so personally I'm willing to write that off. I find your phrasing of the win over Brooklyn to be curious: "If you want to credit Thibs..." Who else is there to credit besides Thibs and the team? They were the lower seeded team that year and scored an upset series victory without Rose and other key players. It was a great achievement.

For me the only disappointing finish Thibs had was during his last year. Every other year he took the team as far as it could go. Along the way they created a reputation around the league for being tough and tenacious. Players like LBJ are on record as saying they hated playing us because they knew they were in for a fight. That's pretty awesome and it's a shame that we can't say that about ourselves anymore.

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He's going to have to do a lot to make.up for the dysfunction. Backing into the playoffs because of the accident of playing in a shitty conference isn't enough. A good coach who gets guys to fall in line with the program, as others have mentioned, has this team locked into the playoffs by being at least 5-7 games above 500. If Hoiberg wins a playoff series I'd be impressed. As of now they're either going to miss the playoffs or get swept in embarrassing fashion in the first round if they do make it.

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I think Thibs is a good coach but nowhere near being an elite level guy.

The guys knows x & o's no doubt, especially on the defensive end. I'd also be willing to bet that if you sat down with Hoiberg and just went over the nuts and bolts of the game you'd probably come away thinking this guy knows his stuff as well. Just knowing the game though doesn't mean you should be in charge.

I mean nobody is suggesting that Vinny Del Negro did a great job when the Bull took the Celtics to 7 games and Noah became Noah right before our very eyes. We as fans are very selective when it comes to giving coaches credit and or blame. I'm not immune to that. I know I've been guilty of it too.

And I'm not saying this applies to you, but to a lot of people I talk to and read, there like of Thibs stems from the fact that he coaches "hard" so to speak. Fans love a guy who yells and is animated on the sidelines or in the dugout. To them it shows that they care. I happen to thinks that's a ridiculous way of judging someone's ability, but everyone fans differently.

Bringing it back to Skiles, I think both he, Van Gundy and Thibs are very much the same guy. (You can throw Carlisle in there as well, but he's got the title on his resume which sets him apart in my view.) All three come in and seem to get that immediate bump in "effort" but by the third or fourth year players tune them out and their message falls upon deaf ears. Great coaches don't routinely have short shelf lives.

Granted, Thibs is only on his second opportunity HC wise, but you don't see a similar patter to that of the careers of Skiles an Van Gundy?

Exactly - it's so much more than just knowing the game. DB provided the example of Trestman. Trestman knows offense for sure. What he doesn't know is how to do lead at the big league level. Thibs did/does, Hoiberg doesn't.



The series was fun - no doubt. But it was clear that Vinny had sort of the opposite problem that Hoiberg has - he didn't know how to coach the basics. I remember stories of utterly predictable sets and how he didn't know how to use certain players, like Deng.



Well personally I don't care for a coach's public demeanor. I also think it's ridiculous to judge a coach based on how he acts on the sideline. My eyes are permanently crossed from rolling them every time I heard some guy complain about Lovie's coaching because he didn't rant and rave on the sidelines like that dumbass Ditka did. But again what makes me think highly of Thibs are measurable metrics like record and defensive ranking. What also contributes to me holding him in high esteem is what his peers and competing players think of his teams. Having LBJ and others essentially complain about having to play the Bulls because, while the Bulls weren't all that talented, it was going to be a fight nonetheless because of how well coached they were, and how well they executed their gameplan, particularly on defense. That's relevant praise.



Yeah, that was/is my concern with Thibs as well. I would quibble with mentioning VG, Thibs, and Carlise in the same breath as Skiles since they all have markedly better records, as far as I know, than Skiles, but yeah essentially the problem they all face from time to time is the same. For Thibs' sake I hope he solves that issue in Minny, but because it's only his second job we don't know yet if that's always going to be Thibs' achilles heal. I agree that great coaches don't have short shelf lives, and that's why I'm hoping Thibs figures that out.

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We'll more than likely get our answers on the Thibs questions in the next couple of years.

Though with our luck, he'll get a third gig with somebody and then we'll be right back at it again.

It's easier to get an 8 seed in the West than the East. But somehow you think backing in to the playoffs for the T Wolves is impressive but if the Bulls do it it's not. Very objective!

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

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I bet Jay Williams wishes he was a passenger on a Chicago Bulls bus one night, 14 years ago.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

This is all bullshit and I'll respond soon.

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Everything in my post is a fact.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Right on the damn money and I'm glad he called his overrated ass on it. Butler hasn't given the Bulls shit during the most important portion of the season. That is why Sky wants the ball in Rondo's hands.

I'm sure someone will find a way to tie his shitty ass play to Hoiberg. This is the same guy who wanted to be the leader. Well lead then!

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So is mine.

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There is clearly a difference between a dysfunctional team like Hoiberg's barely making the playoffs and a young team under a new coach making the playoffs after a long drought. I am being objective here - I did say Hoiberg winning a series would be impressive. Failing to make the post-season last year while lying to your players and fucking up a rock solid foundation established by Thibs, and then barely making the playoffs this year after another up and down campaign with more drama and dysfunction, isn't impressive in the grand scheme of things. The context is different for the Wolves.




FF: You continue to assume the Bulls and Wolves are at the same place in the grand scheme of things. Getting to the playoffs, no matter which way, is a win for a young team with no playoff experience under a first year coach. Not the same with the Bulls, especially last year, since they were a veteran team with plenty of playoff experience. Once you get the difference between where the Bulls and Wolves are at development-wise then you'll see why comparing their records and performance is not helpful. The arrow is pointing up for the Wolves and down for the Bulls.

LTG: The Wolves' arrow is pointing up no matter how they finish this year. They are already on pace or have exceeded by now their record for last year. Not as successful as I prognosticated but its progress nonetheless. The Bulls have gone backward since firing Thibs - that's indisputable.

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You had them better than the Bulls this season. You placed them ahead if for no other reason than the fact they have Thibs. He had very little to do with the construction of the team and his 1st pick appears to be a flop.


You rate coaching above all else so this whole wait and see angle game that you are playing now rings hollow. You subscribed to the greatness that is Thibs. The imovement that you speak of is so miniscule that it doesn't make sense to really mention it.


As far as East Vs West that is weak also. Their win total exceeds that of Sacramento by 1 and Sac is down their top 2 guys.

You also never menation the gap in East West when you cite Thibs gaudy winning percentage. He piled up a number of wins against a much weaker East than exists today. Miami was the only credible team besides the Bulls yet that fact doesn't appear to trouble you much. It was also a weak ass East when they gutted their way to the playoffs with D.J. Augustin leading the charge.

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You need to stop mentioning the east vs west thing because it makes it seem like you're half asleep when you type these posts. If the east is weak, which it is, then why doesn't Hoiberg have a better record? I'll tell you why: it's because he sucks. Being a better coach is worth wins even when the roster isn't great.

I don't rate coaching "above all else." I only mention it so many times to you because you severely undervalue it, to the point where I think you think it's irrelevant. Let's pretend Thibs never coached the Bulls from 2009-2015 and he's coaching the Bulls right now. Do they have a better record? Damn straight they do.

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Let's talk about the team that he is coaching instead of the one he coached in 2010. I could very easily make the argument that there are currently 20 coaches that could get the same results as he has. He will win 4-5 more games than the guy he replaced. Mind you the other guy took over just before the season began. He also had to coach a team led by unproven players. He also didn't have total control over personnel.


You billed Thibs as the cure for all that ails last season and now you are preaching patience. You can't place everything on coaching only when it furthers your argument. If coaching is paramount then Thibs is doing a pretty lousy job by all accounts.

The East is weak argument is your thing not mine. The East is much improved from the time that he coached the Bulls. It isn't as lopsided as it used to be.

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Being called out by Jay Williams is like being called out by Frank...meaningless

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Unfortunately, the Bulls won't have a chance to sign Lance Stephenson in the offseason. He has agreed to a 3 year, $12M deal with the Pacers.

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https://www.google.com/amp/deadspin.com ... 726038/amp

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Stupid quote but not really surprising that you find it contradictory. The 7th and 8th seed are 1 game below .500 and the 6th seed is three games above .500. I guess being 3 games above deems one to be in some sort of "danger".

Meanwhile the 8th seed in the West is currently 2 games under .500

western conference - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?ei=r6bdWO ... Lx6eTrA_kk

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Hey I don't know if anyone noticed but LeBron James is still good.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

The Bulls should just play every game on Thursday night on TNT. They'd be pretty good then.

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Point is the east sucks. There's really only one way to measure the quality of play in the east vs quality of play in the west, and you're refusing to grasp it. As usual your counterpoint about the 8th seed in the west is irrelevant and misleading. That same 8th seed in the west would be in the playoffs in the east, while the 7th seed in the west would be the 5th seed in the east. Meanwhile the top team in the east would be no higher than the fourth seed in the west. You can't argue with math - the east sucks and the west is far more competitive. Just admit it.

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2013 CSFMB ROY