Scenario: Not sneaking up on anyone. Wide open area. You begin 20 feet away from someone that is wearing the wrong colors. Unacceptable. Right next to you, you have your choice of:

Sword
Knife
Handgun
Howitzer
Cyanide
Rubber Mallet
Stielhandgranate

What are you taking?

Because I polled this, and 100% of non ninjas take the handgun.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Why are you assuming they only get one shot? In fact, the ability to fire off several rounds in a matter of seconds is why it's such an efficient weapon.

Obviously, like you've been doing, we can work through scenarios all day long. I'm not too interested in that. I would agree that most people probably overestimate how easy it is to kill with a gun. I'm not one of those people. I don't necessarily care to argue HOW efficient a gun is, or which one is more efficient, or how efficient it is compared to rat poison. I just think, all things considered, it's an efficient way to kill someone.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Why have a gun if you don't think you might kill something with it?

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Katniss took the bow & arrow.

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6% of attempted suicides and 54% of "successful" suicides are by guns
85% of suicide attempts by gun are successful
That's pretty efficient

To use Darkside logic, it is far easier to be a "skilled operator" of a handgun than a bow and arrow.

Also, she ended up needing help from like 15 other people or she was dead.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

The other 15% get a F for effort.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yeah that's not my logic. Please don't attribute that to me.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

I wouldn't say you only get one shot.

I would say that your first shot is going to be by far the most accurate. I'll further say that even with a critical injury your target is going to be moving and getting sights back on target, on a moving target, becomes progressively more difficult with each shot.
Your target won't just drop dead instantly il unless you Lee Harvey him right in the cranium. The overwhelming majority of firearm deaths happen from blood loss rather than organ and tissue damage, and bleeding out takes quite some time. That's why as America referenced earlier something like 80% or whatever of gsw victims survive.
I have a friend who is an er doctor, doug and lipid know him, and as we've discussed this and he's seen many gsw's he would disagree with you at least in the spirit of how easy it really is to simply gun someone down.
You have something like a 3 to 4 inch wide target that extends from just below the neck to about 5 inches above your navel that's really the highest probability of a fatal wound, that also larelgely depends on projectile velocity and penetration. In a defensive position a moving target is actually quite difficult to kill even with a skilled operator pulling the trigger.
This is why I wanted to really understand what you mean by "efficient". It's quite relative, not nearly as objective as you're trying to make it sound. It's extremely situational, and highly dependent upon the individuals involved.
If all things were equal I could be persuaded to agree with your overwhelming vague and general question as posed but it's not that simple.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Imu... question in order to make this interesting (at least to me)
Do you have any experience with firearms?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

This board kills me a little every day

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I think you pretty much have agreed with me by now. It's all good.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What can we post to speed up this process?

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Little. As a kid. My dad was an avid hunter, and still shoots out in the far western suburbs. I've never held a FOID card though. It has been a good 10+ years for me easy.

$10 for a FOID card? That needs to be more expensive.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Guns are efficient tools for killing people and defending yourself. That's why I say fuck off to any statist asshole who wants to take away my best means of home defense and my best weapon against tyranny.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Hell yes! This guy gets it.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

From what I understand bullets can be fatal if shot from a gun. So Id have to say, Yes.


I prefer killing with kindness

It really can't be. Actually, very much for the same reason why it's said to be unreasonable to present ID when voting.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Ok so we agree under a very specific set of variables and controlled environments.

It's interesting though that nra and other self defense organizations recommend large amounts of practice and experience to be an effective self defense tool.
I myself didn't feel proficient with my one handgun until I had 2500 rounds down range, and I've only got 1000 or so downrange in my other one so I'm not fully proficient (although very accurate)

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

2017

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I didn't think the answer to this topic question required so much thought.

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I wish he had used effective rather than efficient.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I didn't want to alter the original statement from America that I disagreed with.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I was correct. Reading this I want to take my own life.

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Or perhaps he might've added the codicil of 'presuming a certain and equal amount of proficiency with any and all other reasonably attainable weapons' ... at that point, clearly a gun is going to be more 'efficient' than, say, a billy club or a bow & arrow or a 7lb sledge or whatever ... I would think, anyway.



Spiral ...

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Yeah, but then it would've just been a few "yes" replies and that's it and then CiJ wouldn't currently be suicidal. I stand by my decision.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ive got kids now

Dick.

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