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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I'm not editing that. I like "woo shed" better.

In what context is Cernovich being allowed to appear on the medium? What was the story?

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Chuck Todd would have blown him live on TV and then later say if he challenges people they won't come on his show.

Of course I know what he meant. Even so, I'm not sure how we could know it's true, although obviously he can find stats to back up his position. Someone arguing the other way is going to have their stats too. The point is, it's agenda driven.

Steinberg is coming from a place where coming illegally (which I'm sure he views as "illegally") into a country isn't really a crime at all. Especially when a person is trying to improve his lot in life. That's a human point of view. I'm certainly not criticizing Steinberg for having it. I feel that way myself to a certain degree. As obviously most guys who post here do.

But it's easy to talk about "economic justice" as a fat American without really digging deep into what that means and what it might mean for you. Most who post here are also quite practical and certainly enjoy/like the creature comforts they have "earned" mostly simply by virtue of being born in the U.S.

The only guy I have ever read in this forum who I think may have a sincere belief in the possibilities of a system that absolutely deconstructs America as a nation as well as a concept is Tall Midget.

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Freedom is our Strength.

while being employed in the most government subsidized field in this country beyond "national defense"

We all have a stake in the game.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

well he is a communist after all, so I don't see the issue.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

The story was about fake news.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Comrade Trump and the Crooked Cabinet can simply state their cases without all the lying. It's not an unreasonable request.

"Illegal immigrants should be deported because they entered the country without complying with immigration law."

That is not what Comrade Trump and his regime are publicizing. They are misdirecting by highlighting illegal immigrants higher propensity to commit violent crimes.

Their assertion is false and their argument is dishonest.

That may be, but it's also a dishonest argument to ignore the fact that such crimes are being committed by people who, based on existing law, shouldn't be in the country and try to frame any concern about such as "anti-immigrant".

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Freedom is our Strength.

They're literally just refuting the incorrect things that Trump says. Not mentioning the fact that illegal immigrants broke a law to get here is not agenda-driven. It would be re-stating something that any coherent adult should already know.

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I disagree. If the statement were, "There is evidence to suggest that once we remove the crime of entering the country illegally, illegal immigrants commit less crimes than U.S. citizens" we wouldn't be having this discussion. But calling attention to the fact that it was a crime that put them here in the first place doesn't support the far Left agenda of a borderless world.

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Freedom is our Strength.

You're complicating a simple concept.

If Trump's argument has merit then let it stand on its own. Do not lie by stating illegals have a higher proclivity to commit violent crimes.

No one is saying illegal immigrants do not commit violent crimes. So don't use that bogus card either.

Wasn't the initial disagreement regarding the commitment of violent crimes, though?

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It was.

JORR and Kellyanne are VERY similar.

So where do we send the crazy ass white people?

Surprised more defamation lawsuits are filed on shit like this.

I'm curious how the driving infractions would weigh in on those stats. Would a hit and run from an illegal count as a violent crime?

I'm not sure what constitutes a violent crime. I'm sure there are ways to play games with the stats either way.

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Naperville.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Has Trump ever said that illegal immigrants commit violent crimes at a higher rate than some other group? That's an honest question, because the best I can find are strawmen created by news outlets "fact checking" the incidence of violent crime committed by illegal immigrants when Trump anecdotally references someone killed by an illegal alien.

Trump's anecdotes all seem to resolve to a gigantic "but for" statement. But for this guy being arrested and released, despite being an illegal alien subject to deportation, this person--or these people--would still be alive. In certain instances, like when an illegal alien is spared deportation and released a week before he commits murder, the current practices against which Trump is railing are a bona fide proximate cause of harm committed on other citizens, that's undeniable.

The other problem is that the CRO report on the rate at which illegal aliens commit "violent crimes" isn't actually about "violent crimes", it's about "aggravated felonies". Either because of incomplete data, or more unscrupulous narrative-pushing, there appears to be no attempt to quantify the actual rate at which illegal aliens commit any and all violent crimes, instead just ones with an "aggravated" modifier. There is also a rather large issue of the report--which is the report most often used to "debunk" Trump's claims--focusing solely on federal arrests for federal offenses.

I saw this last night and thought Pelley lost his way in that interview. He should be harping on a good reporter has facts that back up a story. Not an interview with an anesthesiologist that claims Clinton has Parkinson's though he has never seen Clinton in person.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

When he says they are bringing "murderers and rapists," I think it's pretty clear. Additionally, why is the burden on someone else to disprove Trump? He has - if not directly stated - at least implied that they do. He should back it up. And every time he or anyone else uses an anecdote to show that an illegal committed a violent crime, it's intellectually dishonest. Anecdotes show nothing.

The funny thing is that I've been quite Conservative on this issue my whole life. I never understood how people could defend others illegally coming here. But that doesn't make Trump's claims anymore true to me.

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if this the long way of saying fact checking has a liberal bias then i agree with yiu. anytime you contradict the president then your pushing a fucking agenda

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libtard's personfied:

I agree. I hate how many Democrats have framed the debate on illegal immigrants. It's like if you don't think that we should have border controls and immigration controls you are a racist who hates the group that happens to be the largest portion of illegal immigrants because of proximity.

However, Trump is an idiot and all his talk does is help the Democrats to frame it in a way that makes that seem accurate.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Trump wisely hid behind accusations of illegal immigrants having higher rates of criminality to avoid an honest debate. And also to win cheap votes.

And now we're seeing the anecdotal stories pop up of "regular" illegal immigrants getting rounded up and sent away.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/local/wife-of-granger-restaurant-owner-facing-deportation-says-she-regrets/article_65151376-10b7-11e7-ba7c-6783f924ac92.html

That is because he generalizes and helps promote stereotypes. When Trump accuses illegals of being drug dealers rapists and murderers he is attaching those characteristics to each and every person that happens to be an illegal. If he frames it based on legality then he has a better argument.

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If your evidence of his implication about the rate at which illegal aliens commit violent crimes is the "they're bringing murderers and rapists" campaign speech, you're stretching logic and reasonableness a little thin.



This is a Bernstein-inspired bastardization of statistics and sociology. Anecdotes aren't useless. In fact, in the proper context, an anecdote--or case study--can be particularly enlightening where raw data would be at best inconclusive. We have a hard time quantifying the number of illegal aliens in this country, and as a result any incidence rate of violent crime will be tenuous. That's not reason enough to ignore the fact that our current system is such that illegal aliens arrested on suspicion of commission of a violent crime can be released to avoid deportation, leaving them free to commit other violent crimes that are, literally, 100% preventable. This state of affairs isn't evidenced in statistical data, or even if it was, it is unreliable, statistically speaking, but is undeniable in anecdotal form.