Has Trump ever said that illegal immigrants commit violent crimes at a higher rate than some other group? That's an honest question, because the best I can find are strawmen created by news outlets "fact checking" the incidence of violent crime committed by illegal immigrants when Trump anecdotally references someone killed by an illegal alien.

Trump's anecdotes all seem to resolve to a gigantic "but for" statement. But for this guy being arrested and released, despite being an illegal alien subject to deportation, this person--or these people--would still be alive. In certain instances, like when an illegal alien is spared deportation and released a week before he commits murder, the current practices against which Trump is railing are a bona fide proximate cause of harm committed on other citizens, that's undeniable.

The other problem is that the CRO report on the rate at which illegal aliens commit "violent crimes" isn't actually about "violent crimes", it's about "aggravated felonies". Either because of incomplete data, or more unscrupulous narrative-pushing, there appears to be no attempt to quantify the actual rate at which illegal aliens commit any and all violent crimes, instead just ones with an "aggravated" modifier. There is also a rather large issue of the report--which is the report most often used to "debunk" Trump's claims--focusing solely on federal arrests for federal offenses.

Trump wisely hid behind accusations of illegal immigrants having higher rates of criminality to avoid an honest debate. And also to win cheap votes.

Trump wisely hid behind accusations of illegal immigrants having higher rates of criminality to avoid an honest debate. And also to win cheap votes.

Right. But any honest debate can't ignore the driving reason why Democrats love immigrants. They figure to become part of their voting base. And while Trump is ridiculous in claiming that 3-5 million people voted illegally, there are certainly some illegal immigrants who have voted and Democrats are less than concerned about it.

Illegal immigrants cannot vote.

When he says they are bringing "murderers and rapists," I think it's pretty clear. Additionally, why is the burden on someone else to disprove Trump? He has - if not directly stated - at least implied that they do. He should back it up.

And every time he or anyone else uses an anecdote to show that an illegal committed a violent crime, it's intellectually dishonest. Anecdotes show nothing.

If he isn't talking about the rate at which they are murderers and rapists, why mention it?

In this case, anecdotes provide absolutely nothing. I'm not even sure what you're arguing other than saying "anecdotal evidence is all we have." you may be right, but that doesn't make that evidence anymore reliable than Trump just yelling things.

I just wish there was a chart as to when the president's words are to be taken literally or when they're simply a window into his heart.

You then stated that no one could really prove the rate was lower, and I asked you why the burden of proof wouldn't be on Trump since he is the one making the allegations. Your argument then changed to say that he never really said the rate was higher but that he was just stating the fact that there are illegal immigrants who are murderers and rapists.

However, that would be a pointless statement because anyone with half a brain know that out of, let's say, a group of 5 million people, there will be multiple rapists just based on odds.

Agreed. Such a tool would be very handy.

It might be handy for all politicians. Trump communicated well enough to win, after all. I doubt his voters are as confused by him as you seem to be.

At the risk of upsetting leash, I'll bring up Hillary Clinton's statement that she wanted to put coal miners out of work. I know that it wasn't an attack on coal miners. Unfortunately for her, it came across that way to a lot of people.

It doesn't upset me; I know you can't help yourself. I don't like her either, dude... I'm just tired of talking about her.

Your first sentence is confusing to me, though... MANY seem to use the fact that Trump won the presidency to be a justification for everything he does. When GWB invaded Iraq and we found no WMD's, did you say "well, his supporters are probably fine with it"? The answer is obviously no, so this phenomenon is distinct to Trump. Why? Are people not allowed to criticize him?

He's not beyond criticism. Nobody is. But come on. Have you ever seen anything like this? Whatever the guy does it's like an eleven on the crisis scale. We've got people flipping out worrying about him offending Angela Merkel. Fuck Angela Merkel.

Trump and his administration purposely waived their right to any "honeymoon" period.