You seem to listen to a lot of Theo.

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I'm asking you what he's done at SS to be called "elite" and mentioned among the best SS in the history of the game?

He made some good plays at a moment in time.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's @ 2nd, he hasn't done dick at short..I don't think he's better than Addy at short, he's probably the best glove at second base in the majors though.

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Sox fans seriously jealous of young infield talent on the Northside. Baseless statements of criticism without evidence! Sad!

That Matches and leash happened to see on the television.

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I don't know how much more clearly I can explain this.

Have you ever sat around watching sports (especially with older guys) and they say something similar? At Thanksgiving, we would always watch football and I can remember my dad or uncles or someone saying "you know, so-and-so's about the best I've seen at __________". Yes, very Hawk-ish... and sometimes even hyperbolic... but they don't literally mean it as "that guy is the best quarterback in the history of the NFL." It's not that simple... it's just a saying. They mean it more like "man, during this stretch I've been watching recently, he's doing ______ as well as anyone I've ever seen do it." I don't know how to explain it anymore than that.

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He's a heullva lot better than Tim Anderson at SS.

I guess you guys didn't watch much Cub baseball last year.

The guy was making spectacular plays at three different positions.

Yeah, now they're mocking our statements by making up statements that are actually true.

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He's right there with a 15 time gold glover?
I mean... I like him too and he can tag but did you see him bobble that relay throw in game 7?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Ok, but Matches isn't doing that. He's straight up telling you he sincerely believes it.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Cubbie jealously is real. I can't blame them thought. It's exciting baseball.

I love Matches, but I'm not Matches. That's how I took his statement. I still sorta think that's what he means. He's not speaking to longevity.

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Making spectacular plays at 2, or 3, or 9 different positions does not make somebody an all-time great fielder.

If you are claiming Baez is one of the best defensive infielders you have ever seen, then you are calling him an all-time great. That is absurd right now.

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Rafael Palmerio won gold gloves.

And yes, Baez is right there with Ozzie Smith & Omar Vizquel as defensive baseball players.

Alright. But even if we isolate Baez to last year, he still didn't seem to have an all time great defensive year on paper. The stats and metrics seem to suggest he's very good and not an all time great. I mean I guess we can just ignore them and go with the eye test, but I have a feeling many of you are not watching nearly the amount of other 29 teams as you are watching Baez play, so it's not really an ideal way to judge unless you are.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

When you're making those spectacular plays on a regular basis then yes, it does make one a great defender.

And before you come at me with the Jim Edmonds argument, how many bad routes have you seen Baez take on balls?

What does an outfielder have to do with Baez?

Quoted for absurdity.

In 5 or 6 years, might be true. As we sit here today, this is sheer insanity.

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Did he win 15? Smith did.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

If that's an absurd quote than call me crazy.

Dude matches I ike Baez but comparing him to smith... I mean... smith dude.
Smith.
The guy is the best I've seen in my lifetime. Every ss gets compared to him.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

And what did you see Smith do that you don't think Baez can do with a glove?

He's the best defensive 2nd baseman I've seen on the Cubs or Sox in my lifetime.

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Right, so there's a metric saying basically what Frank is - if he plays longer and more and at this high a level, he'll get there. That's reasonable.

That metric(and some other stats) also seems to suggest he's not elite defensively at third.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Baez is not better than Ryno. Yet.

Matches, you are crazy.

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Be solid and consistent over 20 years.
We can compare his career when he's got that kind of tenure.
Until then Baez is a very gifted athlete with a load of potential. He has all the gifts.
He needs to show he can use them over a long career.
That's what I saw smith do that I didn't see Baez do.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I know I missed Sandberg pre 89 ish , but I just never thought he had a great glove or range. They give GG's out to the best offensive player at each position unless they are a real butcher.


http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post ... gs-defense

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Back in the day, fewer errors played into it which tells very little.

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