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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:36 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
What did our idiot in chief "win" by this dick picture? A week ago MANY didn't care about Syrian women and children and won't take their refugees.

Until Cheetolini sends his own Uday and Qusai to fight, and gets the shit for brains ruling party in Congress to stand and be counted I have no use for any of this crap.

But I guess this benefits the Kochs and the Secretary of State brought to us by Exxon Mobil

Jesus fucking Christ are you off the reservation.

I'm against this damn thing but this is just unhinged.


So show me an honest national justification for this

I'm against it, but your whole rant and justification is just fucking unhinged. Jesus Christ it's like listening to a left wing Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones.


Difference being that we've been down this road before. And with the same amoral profiteers beating the drums of war

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:37 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Nothing says "America First" more than launching $90 million of missiles at a janky airstrip halfway around the world.

Pretty much this.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:37 am 
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Did he at least cut his vacation short, or is he still at Mar-A-Lago?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:38 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
What did our idiot in chief "win" by this dick picture? A week ago MANY didn't care about Syrian women and children and won't take their refugees.

Until Cheetolini sends his own Uday and Qusai to fight, and gets the shit for brains ruling party in Congress to stand and be counted I have no use for any of this crap.

But I guess this benefits the Kochs and the Secretary of State brought to us by Exxon Mobil

Jesus fucking Christ are you off the reservation.

I'm against this damn thing but this is just unhinged.


So show me an honest national justification for this

I'm against it, but your whole rant and justification is just fucking unhinged. Jesus Christ it's like listening to a left wing Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones.


Difference being that we've been down this road before. And with the same amoral profiteers beating the drums of war

Then make your argument without the stupid cheetolini, Uday, and Qusai additions. Those have nothing to do with the topic and completely distract from any point you are trying to make.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:38 am 
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Chus wrote:
Did he at least cut his vacation short, or is he still at Mar-A-Lago?

He's meeting the Chinese Premier there today. They'll talk about North Korea and I'm sure nothing will be accomplished.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:43 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
What did our idiot in chief "win" by this dick picture? A week ago MANY didn't care about Syrian women and children and won't take their refugees.

Until Cheetolini sends his own Uday and Qusai to fight, and gets the shit for brains ruling party in Congress to stand and be counted I have no use for any of this crap.

But I guess this benefits the Kochs and the Secretary of State brought to us by Exxon Mobil

Jesus fucking Christ are you off the reservation.

I'm against this damn thing but this is just unhinged.


So show me an honest national justification for this

I'm against it, but your whole rant and justification is just fucking unhinged. Jesus Christ it's like listening to a left wing Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones.


Difference being that we've been down this road before. And with the same amoral profiteers beating the drums of war

Then make your argument without the stupid cheetolini, Uday, and Qusai additions. Those have nothing to do with the topic and completely distract from any point you are trying to make.


But when will you or others explain republicans not caring about the hundreds of thousands of already dead or the refugees they turn their backs on still.

What is completely distracting is how you seem to want to fully ignore their motives.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:49 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:

But when will you or others explain republicans not caring about the hundreds of thousands of already dead or the refugees they turn their backs on still.

What is completely distracting is how you seem to want to fully ignore their motives.

Without the use of chemical weapons, they continue ignoring it. I think I raised a point why the international community views the use of chem weapons differently than the use of barrel bombs. I don't agree with that designation, but the international community disagrees with me.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:59 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:04 am 
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Trump fires on an empty-ish airbase ... Trump says shit, Putin says shit ... goes on for a while ... everyone gets good and nervous ... miraculously in the eleventh hour Trump and Putin put together a tremendous bilateral plan to agree not to kill each other, relieve sanctions against Russia, and for Russia to really - really this time, honest injun - keep a check on Assad and his naughtiness ... Trump, Putin, & their rich corporate freinds win, everyone else loses. Whooptie-doo.

Now back to Cubs talk.

edit: Well gee-whiz, here we go ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russia-condemns-us-missile-strike-on-syria/2017/04/07/c81ea12a-1b4e-11e7-8003-f55b4c1cfae2_story.html

Russia on Friday condemned a U.S. missile strike against Syrian government forces as an attack on its ally and said it was suspending an agreement to minimize the risk of in-flight incidents between U.S. and Russian aircraft operating over Syria.

Even as Russian officials expressed hope that the strike against Syrian President Bashad al-Assad’s forces would not lead to an irreversible breakdown in U.S. relations with Moscow, the Kremlin’s decision to suspend the 2015 memorandum of understanding on the air operations immediately raised tensions in the skies over Syria.

President Vladi­mir Putin’s spokesman said the risk of confrontation between aerial assets of the U.S.-led coalition and Russia has “significantly increased” after President Trump ordered the launch of 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian air base in retaliation for a chemical attack that killed scores of civilians.

Under the now-suspended pact, the two countries had traded information about flights by a U.S.-led coalition targeting the Islamic State and Russian planes operating in Syria in support of the Assad government. Moscow was taking its action, the Russian Defense Ministry said, because it sees the U.S. strike “as a grave violation of the memorandum.”

Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, further claimed that the Syrian government had no chemical weapons and dismissed the Trump administration’s explanation as an excuse to enter the conflict.

“President Putin considers the American strikes against Syria an aggression against a sovereign government in violations of the norms of international law, and under a far-fetched pretext,” Peskov told reporters. “This step by Washington is causing significant damage to Russian-American relations, which are already in a deplorable state.”

“Of course, Syria is our ally, considering that we are helping the Syrian armed forces at the Syrian leadership's request,” Peskov said.

The strike creates the possibility of a direct confrontation with Russia, which has forces on the ground and advanced air-defense systems capable of shooting down U.S. aircraft and missiles.

The so-called "deconfliction" channel that Russia suspended was established in 2015 to prevent mishaps, including collisions, after Russia deployed aircraft to a base along Syria’s Mediterranean coastline and began carrying out strikes on behalf of the Syrian regime. It calls for a U.S. colonel at an air base in Qatar and a Russian colonel to man a phone hotline and inform each other of where their countries’ planes are flying.

The arrangement has been far from ideal, however, and U.S. military officials have called in recent months for an expansion of deconfliction talks as Russian and U.S. military aircraft fly in increasingly close quarters over Syrian cities such as Manbij.

Senior U.S. military officials have said they have resorted to flying advanced F-22 Raptor jets at the top of the “stack” formations used to carry out airstrikes in part because they can better keep track of incoming aircraft and direct other coalition planes to shift out of the way of incoming Russian aircraft.

Two U.S. military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Friday morning that they were aware of Russia’s stated intention to suspend the channel, but it was not yet clear how losing it may affect air operations. The Pentagon was still assessing the situation, they said.

Before the missile strike, a Pentagon spokesman, Capt. Jeff Davis, said in a statement, “U.S. military planners took precautions to minimize risk to Russian or Syrian personnel located at the airfield.”

There have been no reports of Russian casualties in Friday’s strike, but Syrian officials claimed that civilians, including children, were killed in the attack.

In Moscow on Friday, a Russian Defense Ministry spokesman, Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, said Russia would help strengthen Syrian air defenses to “protect the most sensitive Syrian infrastructure facilities.”

Konashenkov said the attack destroyed a warehouse, classrooms, a cafeteria, six Mig-23 fighter jets that were being repaired and a radar station. The runway and other aircraft were not affected, he said.

“Therefore, the military effect of the massive American missile strike on the Syrian air base was extremely small,” he said.

Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman of Russia’s Foreign Ministry, also dismissed the U.S. assertion that the attacks were a response to this week’s chemical weapon attack in northern Syria, which left scores dead in a village in Idlib province — one of the last strongholds of anti-Assad factions.

“It is obvious that the strike by U.S. cruise missiles was prepared well in advance,” Zakharova said on Russian state television. “It is clear to any specialist that the decision to deliver the strikes was made in Washington before the Idlib events, which were simply used as a pretext for demonstrating force.”

Putin’s spokesman said the Russian president considered the attack an attempt to distract attention from the heavy civilian casualties caused by a U.S.-backed offensive to capture the northern Iraqi city of Mosul from the Islamic State group.

“This step is not taking us any closer to the final goal in the fight against international terrorism, but, on the contrary, it is creating a serious obstacle to the establishment of an international coalition to combat it and efficiently counter this global evil,” Peskov said.

Under a 2013 Russia-U.S. agreement, Syria agreed to dismantle its chemical weapons stockpile. A U.N. mission in 2014 confirmed that most of Assad’s “declared” chemical arsenal had been eliminated. But this week’s attack in Idlib raised questions about whether some arms were held back.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who is due to arrive in Moscow next week, said the attack on Idlib meant that “clearly, Russia has failed in its responsibility to deliver on that commitment.”

“So either Russia has been complicit or Russia has been incompetent in its ability to deliver on that agreement,” Tillerson said at a briefing late Thursday
.

Other Russian officials issued grave condemnations of the U.S. strike.

“This is fraught with the possibility of a clash between Russia and the U.S.A., and the consequences might could be the most severe, including military conflict,” Mikhail Yemelyanov, a member of the lower house of the Russian parliament, told the Interfax news agency. “Here you can’t rule out anything.”

“This will have negative consequences for normalization of the situation in Syria,” said Viktor Ozerov, the head of the defense and security committee of the upper house of the Russian parliament.

He said the attacks would send the wrong signal to Assad’s opposition and undermine the peace process.

Peskov had told the Associated Press on Thursday that Russia’s support for Assad was not unconditional, but he insisted that Russia wants to see a full investigation into the use of chemical weapons in Syria before the United Nations takes any action.

Putin carefully orchestrated a peace process that brought together Turkey and Iran — regional powers that have backed opposing sides in the civil war. At the same time, the chemical weapons attack suggested that Assad and his Iranian allies have no intention of being party to a power-sharing agreement with the opposition, indicating that Putin’s deal is all but dead.

U.S.-Russian relations are at their lowest point in decades, over Moscow’s annexation of Crimea and its proxy war in eastern Ukraine, as well as allegations that the Kremlin interfered in the U.S. presidential election last year.

Following the election of Trump, Russian leaders expressed measured optimism for an improvement in relations, but Peskov and others have said that so far there has been minimal dialogue. Trump did call Putin on Monday to express condolences after an explosion that Russian investigators have called a terrorist attack killed 14 and wounded dozens more in a St. Petersburg subway train.

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Last edited by Don Tiny on Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:53 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Nothing says "America First" more than launching $90 million of missiles at a janky airstrip halfway around the world.


Those missiles were getting old anyways. Might as well use them.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:09 am 
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Out of the 59 missiles fired 23 hit their target...If your Anthony Rizzo hitting that...pretty damn good.A well oiled war machine not so :(

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:11 am 
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23-59 will also be a pretty good record for the White Sox at the all star break.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:14 am 
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Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Out of the 59 missiles fired 23 hit their target...If your Anthony Rizzo hitting that...pretty damn good.A well oiled war machine not so :(


I haven't read about that yet. Seems bad but we would need to know how far off target. I am going to guess a t-hawk has a pretty big blast area.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:26 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Walt Williams Neck wrote:
Out of the 59 missiles fired 23 hit their target...If your Anthony Rizzo hitting that...pretty damn good.A well oiled war machine not so :(


I haven't read about that yet. Seems bad but we would need to know how far off target. I am going to guess a t-hawk has a pretty big blast area.

I doubt they missed. More likely air defense engaged them. A TLAM is not a hard target to take out provided your RADAR can see over the horizon. It flies a straight level path and a constant speed. It's not like engaging an aircraft that can jink and has countermeasures/jamming

Edit: I see the report of only 23 hitting is from Russia so I doubt the veracity of the claim.

Observers on the ground say they didn't see SAM launches, and I can say from personal experience, you will see a SAM launch and its impact if it hits its target. I have personally witnessed Iron Dome hitting rockets with warheads about 1/10-1/5 the size of a TLAM's warhead. You certainly would have ground observers and video of an intercept of a missile carrying a 1,000 lb warhead.

I did see video on Twitter of the impacts on the airfield. No video yet of any intercepts, which you would think RT would be running.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:54 am 
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This is getting lost in the other thread:

DannyB wrote:
About an hour ago on Chicago Tonight a Northwestern prof. predicted that Trump's response would be to randomly lob some missiles in order to look tough and no doubt end up killing some civilians in the process. USA! USA!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:21 am 
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Regardless of where anyone stands on this or any other conflict, saying that a president has "balls" because he sends other people's children to kill people in foreign countries is the pinnacle of stupidity in American political discourse (which is really saying something).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:25 am 
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Peskov had told the Associated Press on Thursday that Russia’s support for Assad was not unconditional, but he insisted that Russia wants to see a full investigation into the use of chemical weapons in Syria before the United Nations takes any action.


I guess the photos of those dead kids didn't make it over there yet?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:30 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Peskov had told the Associated Press on Thursday that Russia’s support for Assad was not unconditional, but he insisted that Russia wants to see a full investigation into the use of chemical weapons in Syria before the United Nations takes any action.


I guess the photos of those dead kids didn't make it over there yet?

Russia will toss Assad over the side provided he is replaced by someone who lets them keep their naval base.

What's why they support him in the 1st place.

Lifting sanctions could be a bargaining chip there.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:36 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Regardless of where anyone stands on this or any other conflict, saying that a president has "balls" because he sends other people's children to kill people in foreign countries is the pinnacle of stupidity in American political discourse (which is really saying something).


Maybe "balls" is not appropriate but it is nice having a President that takes action, as opposed to drawing a red line and then doing nothing as thousands ended up dead and millions were displaced, is good to see.

Trump asked for options and then didn't go into professorial mode like Obama but took action and asserted American leadership in the world once again. If this leads to the stopping of chemical warfare in Syria, hats off to Trump.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:37 am 
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'77Cubs wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Regardless of where anyone stands on this or any other conflict, saying that a president has "balls" because he sends other people's children to kill people in foreign countries is the pinnacle of stupidity in American political discourse (which is really saying something).


Maybe "balls" is not appropriate but it is nice having a President that takes action, as opposed to drawing a red line and then doing nothing as thousands ended up dead and millions were displaced, is good to see.

Trump asked for options and then didn't go into professorial mode like Obama but took action and asserted American leadership in the world once again. If this leads to the stopping of chemical warfare in Syria, hats off to Trump.

That's a poor thought.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:46 am 
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'77Cubs wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Regardless of where anyone stands on this or any other conflict, saying that a president has "balls" because he sends other people's children to kill people in foreign countries is the pinnacle of stupidity in American political discourse (which is really saying something).


Maybe "balls" is not appropriate but it is nice having a President that takes action, as opposed to drawing a red line and then doing nothing as thousands ended up dead and millions were displaced, is good to see.

Trump asked for options and then didn't go into professorial mode like Obama but took action and asserted American leadership in the world once again. If this leads to the stopping of chemical warfare in Syria, hats off to Trump.


The only difference between Obama and Osama is pure BS.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:47 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
'77Cubs wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Regardless of where anyone stands on this or any other conflict, saying that a president has "balls" because he sends other people's children to kill people in foreign countries is the pinnacle of stupidity in American political discourse (which is really saying something).


Maybe "balls" is not appropriate but it is nice having a President that takes action, as opposed to drawing a red line and then doing nothing as thousands ended up dead and millions were displaced, is good to see.

Trump asked for options and then didn't go into professorial mode like Obama but took action and asserted American leadership in the world once again. If this leads to the stopping of chemical warfare in Syria, hats off to Trump.

That's a poor thought.


Tell that to the surviving Syrian families who had relatives gassed to death.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:50 am 
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That might be your worst thought of the thread.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:55 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
That might be your worst thought of the thread.


Tell that to the people that took care of that airfield and those planes, before we bombed those things.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:57 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
That might be your worst thought of the thread.


If directed at me, thanks!

:D


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Leash in favor of gassing kids. Sad.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Yikes, pittmike finds a way to top '77.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Unbelievable.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:09 pm 
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gasyourkids


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
gasyourkids


I shouldn't have, but :lol:

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