ya but those last 7 years were all fake. Instead of declining bonds got better but that was because of the steroids. It was exciting to watch him bat at the time because we accepted it but knew the truth. but looking back, it was just phony.

because of the steroid abuse, i got to give my vote out to Big Frank. He put up great numbers and did it clean.

Frank was a designated hitter. The best player of a generation can't spend 95% of a ballgame sitting on his ass.

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Frank played first most of his career, you can't blame him for being in the AL who used the DH.

If bonds was in the AL, he would have been a DH too his last 4-5 years as well

If Frank used roids, he would have had better #'s than bonds on roids.

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

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Yup. A .480 OBP at age 42 is fuckin insane, steroids or not.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

roided out freaque show doesn't count:

1. Greg Maddux
2. Pedro
3. Mike Schmidt

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

How do we know that to be true?

i guess we really don't but that's what people say, that he was clean.

my take on that whole steroids era : I think bud selig is full of shit when the leaked report said something like 10 percent of players were roiding. Im willing to bet it was more like 50-70 percent. When will that report ever be made Public? It's like 15 years now. probably never. I'd be interested to see if the rumors that Prior and Wood were roiding were true or not.

I think Prior was unquestionably roiding. Wood, I don't know. He was always pudgy and then got skinny as hell. He doesn't seem like a roid user, but you never know.

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Juicing was probably much more rampant amongst pitchers than people realize.

Agreed. I doubt they used traditional, pure testosterone that makes your head bigger than a watermelon quite as much as hitters, but I bet they used HGH and other versions of it quite a bit. Hell, if Andy Pettite used HGH, nobody's presumed innocent.

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If they ever release the report I think then people would forgive guys like Bonds and McGwire. You can argue they had to keep up with the Jones' and that the playing field was more level if a majority of players were roiding.

What was Farnsworth on?

I don't even think they need to release the report for people to already realize that was the case with Bonds. I don't know how anyone can blame Bonds for watching Sammy and Mark get all the accolades in 1998 and then saying "Fuck this, I can play that game too"

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That is almost as good as the beating Nolan gave to Ventura

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

How long did it take Paul Wilson to realize he had made a terrible miscalculation?

So what's the verdict on him so far at leadoff ? He's doing the job OBO wise but needs a little more consistency with the bat, no?

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

He's doing what a leadoff man is supposed to do but I think his presence is also supporting the traditional thinking about hitter placement.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I wouldn't say that after just a month. Anyway, I think batting order is probably an overrated concern. The problem is, does a guy like Schwarber take a different approach because he believes he's supposed to.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I hope not. I guess that might be a concern when he's truly leading off, but after that, he's just getting more at-bats than anyone else in random order.

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I was at that game. I think it was year three of my annual out of market Cubs trip. We are on year 16 now, Boston this weekend as luck would have it.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

but if you are de valuing one at bat per game for a generational talent, that is a lot of deflation

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

If that's really happening, I would agree. I don't know that we have any evidence it is, though.

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So do you think his placement is revolutionizing the thought on placement?

I don't think you can make an argument that the leadoff spot has maximized his run producing potential.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I don't think batting order has any real effect on production, and if it does, it's negligible. Generally speaking, I just want my best hitters to get more PA's and to have a varied approach among the order (lefty, righty, patient, free swinger, first pitch swinger, patient hitter, etc.)

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Yes and no. The batter still has it in his mind that he has all these big bats behind him. So maybe he takes a different approach. As you say, you would hope that isn't the case, but that's the only real concern with batting a guy like him up top. These traditions are deeply ingrained.

If the goal is to score the most overall runs the batters should probably just be ordered from highest OPS to lowest.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I doubt Schwarber changes his approach based on where he bats. Doesn't look like Carlos Santana did last year and this year.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I suppose it depends on the guy. Swisher certainly did. But that could be due to the organizational obsession the Sox have with speed and bunting at the top of the order, something that dates back through the "Go Go" teams of the 50s all the way to the "Hitless Wonders".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Well, if it's due to the batters behind him, I wouldn't think it would change his approach much. Unless I'm misremembering, I don't think Schwarber ever spent a significant amount of time any lower in the order than second. He has always batted with Bryant, Rizzo, Zobrist, etc behind him. He batted second in the 2015 postseason, too, which is when he had his most success.

I guess we'll never really know, but I wouldn't move him unless his production starts to get bad... and then it's just more that I don't want a leadoff hitter who's hitting poorly.

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