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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I didn't post that stuff to say it justifies the overly aggressive cops. I postulated that the doctor might have a mental illness. Maybe it was drug use


he has a mental illness because he overprescibes drugs and likes sex ?


Not linking that at all. Two completely separate issues. Before his history came out, I said he acted like a guy with potential mental illness issues.

The drug issue, I don't mean he's addicted to cocaine. I mean he may have been medicated with anti depressants and the like. It appears he was involved in that sort of trade- over prescription of pain killers, etc.

I am merely taking his behavior both before and after the cop incident as an explanation for acting so oddly.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:57 pm 
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denisdman wrote:

I am merely taking his behavior both before and after the cop incident as an explanation for acting so oddly.


I think, as has been stated by others, the explanation for acting so oddly was that he was being forcibly thrown off of a plane that he had every right to be on :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Strong chance that this guy was dealing drugs and had to get back home to finish the transaction. Hence his seemingly incoherent "they will kill me" rambling in the video.

Trust me this makes complete sense in my head.


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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:17 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:24 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I wonder if there are other exceptions or interpretations for that specific situation beyond what is in this regulation?


Yeah, I was surprised to see language stating a maximum (if they want to offer me 50k for my seat, why shouldn't they be able to?). Was probably put in there at the request of the airline industry.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I wonder if there are other exceptions or interpretations for that specific situation beyond what is in this regulation?


Yeah, I was surprised to see language stating a maximum (if they want to offer me 50k for my seat, why shouldn't they be able to?). Was probably put in there at the request of the airline industry.
I believe it is a maximum they have to offer you. They can offer more and they have lost in court for more than that limit.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:36 pm 
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How United plans to deal with future overbooked flights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHSPf6x1Fdo

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
denisdman wrote:

I am merely taking his behavior both before and after the cop incident as an explanation for acting so oddly.


I think, as has been stated by others, the explanation for acting so oddly was that he was being forcibly thrown off of a plane that he had every right to be on :lol:


At the point where airline staff are telling you to get off, and then the cops are telling you to leave, you do not have a right to be on there anymore. Yeah it sucks. He was not acting rationally before they dragged him out.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:18 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Bagels wrote:
denisdman wrote:

I am merely taking his behavior both before and after the cop incident as an explanation for acting so oddly.


I think, as has been stated by others, the explanation for acting so oddly was that he was being forcibly thrown off of a plane that he had every right to be on :lol:


At the point where airline staff are telling you to get off, and then the cops are telling you to leave, you do not have a right to be on there anymore. Yeah it sucks. He was not acting rationally before they dragged him out.


don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. the whole thing sucks and should have been handled better.... but twitter protestors can go fuck themselves, this will have no bearing on who i choose to fly next time I need to take a flight


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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:28 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Bagels wrote:
denisdman wrote:

I am merely taking his behavior both before and after the cop incident as an explanation for acting so oddly.


I think, as has been stated by others, the explanation for acting so oddly was that he was being forcibly thrown off of a plane that he had every right to be on :lol:


At the point where airline staff are telling you to get off, and then the cops are telling you to leave, you do not have a right to be on there anymore. Yeah it sucks. He was not acting rationally before they dragged him out.


I imagine being randomly kicked off isn't something that would make most people pleasant. His 7 figure payday will make it better though.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:29 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Bagels wrote:
denisdman wrote:

I am merely taking his behavior both before and after the cop incident as an explanation for acting so oddly.


I think, as has been stated by others, the explanation for acting so oddly was that he was being forcibly thrown off of a plane that he had every right to be on :lol:


At the point where airline staff are telling you to get off, and then the cops are telling you to leave, you do not have a right to be on there anymore. Yeah it sucks. He was not acting rationally before they dragged him out.
The problem is I don't think that is true if you are being told to do something that is actually against your rights. If they had instead told him to strip down naked so they could let someone else use them then it would be pretty obvious that he should be allowed to resist. United may very well have been legally wrong in what they did in ejecting him. Now, this was a battle he likely wasn't going to win to keep himself in his seat but it doesn't make him wrong for resisting. Police and airline workers still have to be giving lawful commands.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
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#BREAKING United Airlines has troubled past, ties to 9/11 attacks

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:39 pm 
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I am certainly interested to see if that lawyer is correct about bumping people for airline staff.

In any case, that plane is private United property. If they ask you to leave, akin to a bar or stadium asking patrons to leave, I think they have every right to do that. Certainly they should return this guys money in that case. I don't see how you can refuse to leave the private property. Your redress at that point is a breach of contract claim.

But I love United getting all the bad press. By far my worst airline experiences have been with UAL.

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Last edited by denisdman on Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Poor denisdman...Graduate of the Good Dolphin Institute of Higher Quote Function. Sad. Very sad.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Yeah that was bad. Let's just remove the quote altogether. Just searching through airlines terms of carriage. They appear to have very broad ability to bump you off a plane, but I don't know how that jives with FAA regulations. I have to think that the FAA would allow an airline to transport its own staff as needed. Otherwise, you're talking about another entire flight being canceled.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:50 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
In any case, that plane is private United property. If they ask you to leave, akin to a bar or stadium asking patrons to leave, I think they have every right to do that. Certainly they should return this guys money in that case. I don't see how you can refuse to leave the private property. Your redress at that point is a breach of contract claim.

But I love United getting all the bad press. By far my worst airline experiences have been with UAL.
From what I understand though even at a bar or stadium that can't ask you to leave for any reason. It has to be a valid one. If they had said "Sorry, because you are Asian, you have to leave" they would be in big trouble.

If you can't pull someone out of their seat for a non-paying customer then he was right to resist even if it would ultimately have been futile to fight it because it's an unwinnable battle until afterwards.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:50 pm 
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http://lifehacker.com/if-your-flight-is ... socialflow

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Flights are overbooked all the time, with the recent incident on a United flight an obviously terrible handling of the situation by the airline. But if you’re told you’re going to be bumped before you board, don’t volunteer to take the airline’s compensation—whether they offer cash or a voucher. You’re actually entitled to more money if you say no to their offer and are just denied boarding.

The infographic below from AirHelp explains why overbooking happens and how to minimize your chances of getting bumped from a flight. It also explains the monetary benefits of being bumped, though. If you volunteer to be bumped, the airline might offer you $200-$400 back, but if you’re involuntarily denied, federal regulations require you to be compensated up to $1,300, depending on how much of a delay was involved. You should get 2 to 4 times the ticket price plus a full refund of your original ticket. Cash is better than a voucher, but you have to make sure you’re involuntarily denied boarding, rather than accepting whatever the airline offers for volunteers.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:58 pm 
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I've only tried to get bumped twice. Once was ORD-OMA but they ended up getting everyone on. Second time was MEM-MIA (they were offering $800 for a delay of 4 hours, but it would have made for an extremely tight connection to SAL so they wouldn't let me attempt it). If you have the time, it can be quite nice for future travel.

That being said, fuck United.


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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
Southwest began the whole race to the bottom in the airline industry. Fuck them. And their fares are not the cheapest which MANY people seem to believe.
Yup. They also take over airports and push out the competition and then raise prices and cut flights.

There is reason they advertise so much. They desperately need to keep up an appearance that doesn't exist.

While it's true that they aren't as cheap as they were when they first became a national airline they definitely have forced costs down in some major hub markets like Atlanta, Charlotte and Minneapolis. You may believe they push other airlines out but in many cases they are the only thing keeping some airports alive. Most of the major airlines were pulling out of Midway long before SWA took it over.
That's not really true. They've done it all over the country. The cost cutting is temporary which chases out the other airlines that can't compete and then they cut routes and raise prices and there is literally no other choice. Chicago is lucky it has O'Hare that at least keeps them kind of honest.

When I lived in NY, they basically took over the airport in long island. They ended up being like 80% of the total flights in the airport. You could fly direct to Chicago, Las Vegas, and many other destinations multiple times a day right from there. The flights were packed most of the time. The airport became dependent on Southwest much more than Southwest was dependent on them but it was a very good relationship for both sides. First they started to raise prices. They then bought a few terminals at LaGuardia, and started moving flights there and got rid of all flights to Las Vegas, then Chicago, and then pretty much every place but Baltimore and Florida(for all the old people who leave for the winter). Now, keep in mind Chicago is the main hub of Southwest so it really is disruptive when they cut off flights to there. So that airport went from a place you could get to virtually every place they fly with 0 or 1 stops to a place where you basically were just flying to Baltimore and then going to the more limited places they go. Airport traffic plummeted and that airport is now costing the city millions of dollars and it is proving very difficult to get another airline in there given the control Southwest still has even with how they have virtually abandoned the airport. Now people have to find a way to the terrible LaGuardia airport or accept the limited options available at a once thriving airport.

That isn't just what they did there. They've done it to other places too.

Now, they aren't even trying to be a low cost airline unless you fly on a Wednesday morning or Saturday night so the cost savings is minimal which I mean they can do because capitalism and stuff but we need to stop acting like Southwest is some benevolent company that loves it's customers like it has in the countless commercials they do. They are becoming the Wal-Mart of the airline industry.

Ask Cleveland how they felt after United left them high and dry. Or St. Louis when American pulled out. Airlines change their schedules and shift their flight frequency all the time. It's about maximizing revenue, not part of some evil plot. I fly from 30-40 round trips per year and can say that Southwest is consistently the "friendliest" among the major airlines. I agree they are not a discount airline any more. Their pricing is generally on a par with the big boys but if you are traveling with family the free checked baggage can be a significant savings. Maybe if you could pay for extra leg-room you'd be a bigger fan. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:46 pm 
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In Matt Levine's column today, he mentioned that the airline industry has saved over $100 billion over the 30 years that the practice of overselling has been in effect. Which makes United's behavior that much more reprehensible for not upping the ante...they figured why offer more when we can just call the cops?

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:13 pm 
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the formerly orange chuck goudy took a try at victim blaming:

http://abc7chicago.com/news/who-is-the-kentucky-doctor-dragged-from-the-united-plane/1861682/

What really has me interested now is the fact that I think this guy's history has to play some role in this whole mess. The passenger's response to this situation is outside the bell curve... it's extreme and I dont believe a sane person responds this way... is that because he was under the influence of something? Or does United have to wear this 100% on them no matter who crazy a passenger literally may be.


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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:39 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
In Matt Levine's column today, he mentioned that the airline industry has saved over $100 billion over the 30 years that the practice of overselling has been in effect. Which makes United's behavior that much more reprehensible for not upping the ante...they figured why offer more when we can just call the cops?


Not sure why everyone is calling out overselling policies when this wasn't what happened here. He wasn't bumped for other paying customers; he was bumped for deadheading employees who could have driven, taken another flight or taken another flight on another airline. It's basically an intentional battery case.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:56 pm 
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DannyB wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
In Matt Levine's column today, he mentioned that the airline industry has saved over $100 billion over the 30 years that the practice of overselling has been in effect. Which makes United's behavior that much more reprehensible for not upping the ante...they figured why offer more when we can just call the cops?


Not sure why everyone is calling out overselling policies when this wasn't what happened here. He wasn't bumped for other paying customers; he was bumped for deadheading employees who could have driven, taken another flight or taken another flight on another airline. It's basically an intentional battery case.


This is to say nothing of, nor consider, the close relationship between airport security and the corporations that operate there, but if I call the police on you, for something I reasonably believe to be a legitimate reason, am (or, how am I) on the hook for any bedlam which ensues?

Like, if I'm evicting a tenant at a rental property, and the Sheriff shows up to do his thing, and the evictee ends up tussling with the cops, could I be on the hook for damages if it is later revealed that notice of eviction wasn't properly served, or something approaching that?

There's deep pockets either way for this guy, but I'm just unsure of how liability is with United, despite the actual violence being committed by police officers.


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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:03 am 
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Yeah does anyone know who those guys were? I've heard them referred to as police officers, airport security, and also United security. They looked like they could have been Air Marshals.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:10 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
DannyB wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
In Matt Levine's column today, he mentioned that the airline industry has saved over $100 billion over the 30 years that the practice of overselling has been in effect. Which makes United's behavior that much more reprehensible for not upping the ante...they figured why offer more when we can just call the cops?


Not sure why everyone is calling out overselling policies when this wasn't what happened here. He wasn't bumped for other paying customers; he was bumped for deadheading employees who could have driven, taken another flight or taken another flight on another airline. It's basically an intentional battery case.


This is to say nothing of, nor consider, the close relationship between airport security and the corporations that operate there, but if I call the police on you, for something I reasonably believe to be a legitimate reason, am (or, how am I) on the hook for any bedlam which ensues?

Like, if I'm evicting a tenant at a rental property, and the Sheriff shows up to do his thing, and the evictee ends up tussling with the cops, could I be on the hook for damages if it is later revealed that notice of eviction wasn't properly served, or something approaching that?

There's deep pockets either way for this guy, but I'm just unsure of how liability is with United, despite the actual violence being committed by police officers.


The sheriff isn't acting as an agent of the landlord, they are an agent of the state. If they tussle with a tenant that's the state's problem.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:17 am 
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United Airlines apologizes. I guess leaking his history didn't solve the problem. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:43 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Ask Cleveland how they felt after United left them high and dry. Or St. Louis when American pulled out. Airlines change their schedules and shift their flight frequency all the time. It's about maximizing revenue, not part of some evil plot. I fly from 30-40 round trips per year and can say that Southwest is consistently the "friendliest" among the major airlines. I agree they are not a discount airline any more. Their pricing is generally on a par with the big boys but if you are traveling with family the free checked baggage can be a significant savings. Maybe if you could pay for extra leg-room you'd be a bigger fan. :wink:
Of course Southwest wasn't the first airline to do it. With Southwest though, it isn't about simply pulling out of unprofitable airports. It is about literally getting a local monopoly and then leveraging that to the detriment of everyone in the area. They stay in the area but with almost no competition they do whatever they want and the airports have very little leverage since Southwest still controls the terminals and other airlines are hesitant to enter the market again since all Southwest has to do is undercut them once again. My analogy of "Wal-Mart of the skies" is pretty accurate. As I said, Chicago is lucky that O'Hare is there to keep Southwest honest. This is all while Southwest bombards us with adds about how they love their customers and how they are different. It creates this cult of followers. I was one at one point too. There was a time that I literally didn't even check flights on other airlines and instead just went to Southwest. I thought Southwest was the greatest airline around. However, when you start to actually pay attention to just how much of a hassle they are and how on a level larger than your flight they actually hurt your options and have to advertise heavily to try and keep up their "image" you start to see that they aren't the amazing airline that you once thought.

You are correct though on their actual service being poor about the extra leg room and other things. There is no excuse for them to not have reserved seating and extra legroom sections. That's one of the best developments in the airline industry. Instead they basically force you into an extra fee for "boarding preference" where you still have to fight with other passengers on whether you are A46 or A48 and if you aren't there an hour early you risk them boarding quickly. They also are huge in overbooking flights. But hey, the flight attendants will sometimes do funny little skits about the safety features and bags fly free.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:47 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
But hey...bags fly free.
At $25 and sometimes $50 a bag with other airlines, this can add up very quickly. If other airlines started offering even one checked bag for free, I think Southwest would see a pretty significant drop in business.

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 Post subject: Re: United Airlines
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:49 am 
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DannyB wrote:
Yeah does anyone know who those guys were? I've heard them referred to as police officers, airport security, and also United security. They looked like they could have been Air Marshals.



I think they were from the quasi police force they have out at O'Hare. Really just security guards employed by the City. They're always arguing that they should be armed. It's probably a good thing they weren't.

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