So he wasn't a 15 and 10 guy with Cleveland and Lebron James but he'll do it for the Bulls?

He may be a slight upgrade over Joe Smith but he's not a 15/10 guy. He's had one season in his career close to that.

Drew Gooden isn't crap. He can be productive and obviously there is a chance he improves his play but he's not going to have a major impact on wins and losses.

I like Drew Gooden too, but will it honestly make a difference this year or next year with him on the team?

The best part of this trade was that Ben Wallace's lockerrom antics are gone. The rest of it is a trade that doesn't help. If the Bulls get better, it's because Wallace is gone and the current players start playing better.

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You may be right. The Bulls may make the playoffs with Drew Gooden providing a marginal low post scoring presence. I would say that the bigger reason for this will be improved play from Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon if he accepts his role.

I just can't consider it a trade that made the Bulls better because they go from the 9th worst team to the 8th worst team and a first round exit.

I hope I'm wrong, but the whole thing is a mess and they struck out on anyone that could have helped them greatly the past two years. We are now looking at a trade that makes the Bulls slightly better.

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Let's hope that we get Good Larry Hughes and not Bad Larry Hughes.

I will say one thing. This trade works out great if causes the underachieving current players we have to regain focus and play like pro's. I wouldn't care if Ben Wallace had been traded for the rights to Bill Wennington if it does that.

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Just my 2 cents...

I think Nas is completely over-rating Hughes and Gooden. Gooden is well known to be a lazy, albeit talented, player who doesnt like to hit the boards hard or play defense. Didnt we have a guy like that we all hated and sent packing to NY? Gooden is an ok player but his lack of effort made Lebron hate him, Bron has been pushing a trade to get him out of town for 2 years now.

Hughes might benfit from a change of scenery, but I dont see him averaging much more than 12-3-3 with 40% shooting. 37% from the field is awful, and like Baku said he is a cutter and slasher which magnifies the shittyness of the stat. Much like Rick, I expect to hate Hughes till the day he leaves, his one lasting contribution being he helped rid us of Wallace.


Overall I like the trade, I really dont see any downside from it. Joe Smith was a very good player for us, but he belongs on a team like Cleveland or San Antonio, not us. Like Pax said, we are right back where we were a couple years ago, with young talent that we need to evaluate. We got rid of Ben Wallace's contract, so that alone makes this a good trade. Theres a slight chance Hughes regains his old form a bit and we actually win big in the trade, but I wouldnt be expecting a big resurgence on the backs of Hughes and Gooden, they simply arent that good, IMO.

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I'm agreeing with FavreFan a little too much lately. Either he got dumber or I got smarter.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Right. You need to remind yourself that Cleveland is trying to win a championship. The fact that they would essentially swap Gooden for Wallace and Hughes for Szczerbiak says a lot...

I haven't read he's lazy. Can you provide more info, FF?

I think that there is some question to the fact that he always seems to be injured.

Edit: I was wrong. I was mistaken. I throw my mercy on the board.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't claim to be an expert on Drew Gooden, but everything I've read about him says he's a jump shooter - not a post player.

For what it's worth, my co-workers out of Cleveland love the deal, but acknowledge that Gooden was well regarded.

I could, but it would mostly be anecdotal. There's been instances Bill Simmons has covered in his columns where Lebron would routinely stare down and embarrass Gooden for his lack of effort rotating on defense, his poor hands when getting a pass near the hoop, or his general lack of hustle. He seems to be the anti-Noah, basically. I mean, hes not as bas as Curry, but he will never be an All Star, he will have some 20-10 games, but I wouldnt say he is better than Joe Smith. If Im trying to win a 7 game series in June, i want Joe Smith on the court instead of Gooden.

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Not to steal the thread, but does anyone remember when Carlos Boozer screwed over Cleveland who was trying to do him a favor by releasing him and then signing him to a better contract?

Drew Gooden was the person they signed to replace Carlos Boozer.

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Horace Grant was infinitely more tougher than Gooden. Gooden likes to play 10-12 feet from the basket, much like Z does. Getting Big Ben will help shore up there defense inside. I wouldnt refer to Gooden as a post player. He doesnt have good hands and isnt that tough.

By the way... Im willing to reconsider my position on the trade if Gooden brings back the patch of hair on the back of his neck that looks like it was stolen from Rasheed Wallace's head.

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What was I thinking? I was thinking of Larry Hughes. My mistake.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wow, did you just imply excellence as a term that should be used regarding Drew Gooden? Tim Duncan shows alot more passion and leadership than Gooden will ever show. He's actually become quite the leader not only through his play, but with his body language and vocally over the past couple seasons.

Ill give you Gooden isnt injury prone at all, I think Rick was referring to Hughes. It's easy to get your overrated, overpayed players confused in this trade.

Nas, I hope you are right. Im a Bulls fan and would love nothing more than for Hughes to regain his all star form and Gooden to average a double double for the first time in his career, I just dont see it happening. Also, for as horrible as Ben Wallace was, he was a good post defender. All Star guards have eaten us up in the past, and unless Noah is a much better on the ball defender than I have given him credit for(and I've been one of his biggest supporters) than our post defense just got a lot worse. Drew Gooden is horrible on defense, mostly due to lack of effort I imagine. So yeah, thats a problem now too.

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Not once in his tenure in Chicago did I ever consider Chandler a lazy player. If that sounded like the stuff you heard a few years ago I dont know who you were talking to. And Drew Gooden is not a better player right now than Joe Smith.

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Had to look it up. Here's what Simmons wrote. I think it's less about Gooden being lazy than it is about LeBron having a hard time with mortals . . .

During the third quarter, LeBron drove toward the foul line and made a beautiful dish to Gooden, who didn't gather himself for the pass in time. As the ball bounced out of bounds, a frustrated LeBron jogged back up the court staring at the coaches with one of those, "Did you see that? You saw that, right?" looks on his face. And that would have been fine if it ended right there. After all, we get it -- he's great, the rest of his team sucks, and occasionally, it's going to be a little exasperating.

Well, LeBron wasn't done. He glanced back disdainfully at Gooden again, then back to the bench for an extended pseudo-glare. Reading between the lines, I interpreted the glare to mean either, "Take him out of the game before I punch him in the face" or "If that happens again, I'm running straight into the locker room, getting my stuff and chartering my own jet home." At this point, Gooden was running back upcourt and watching the whole thing -- he was officially getting shown up in front of 15,000 people. LeBron shook his head and glanced at Gooden one more time, then back at the bench for a third time, just in case they missed the message the other two times. What a bizarre sequence to watch from 20 feet away.

Only Nas and I could get into a 10 page argument over a trade we both think was good for the Bulls.

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Thanks for looking it up. Yeah I see your point, but I've also seen Marc Stein who is a much objective writer than Bill Simmons criticize Gooden in the similar ways. I also watch alot of NBA basketball(Button 48, and Nas I know you do too) and he has never really impressed me. He's always been pretty much "a guy". He is below average on defense, has a decent little jump shot, doesnt like to bang inside, and will give you 12-8 averaged out over a season, with little to no steals or blocks.

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Ben Wallace will be a different player for Cleveland. He's not as bad as he was playing here. Just wait. He's going to return back to his form that he had in Detroit. This should make Bulls fans dislike him even more.

He has gas left in his tank still. Cavs vs. Celtics will be a great series.

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So will Detroit/Cavs or Detroit/Celtics. I agree on the Ben Wallace point. Z can be a softy like he wants, but it wont be as noticeable because he wont have another soft player playing beside him. I think Z and Ben will be a good frontcourt tandem.

Nas... dont forget the Ben Wallace played great in the playoffs last year. He actually did help us out alot, probably more than Chandler would have. Obviously I would rather have Tyson, but Ben Wallace can still contribute something to a competing team. And I agree with Rick this will make us hate him more.

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Yep.. and if you have, you wouldnt be asking the question

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I'll say I'm looking forward to tonight's game. Are Hughes and Gooden expected to play tonight?

I disagree with Ben Wallace being a terrible player now, but Im very glad hes off our team, so thats why I like the trade. Drew Gooden might be our PF for the next 6 years or so, but I doubt it. If he is, he will be our 4th best, or at most our 3rd best, starter over that span of time, or we wont even be sniffing the NBA Finals during that time. I think him and Noah will be good together, they should compliment eachother well. If Hughes doesnt blossom in the new environment though, we will still need to fix our backcourt situation though, as Hughes could easily become the guard version of Ben Wallace on our team.

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I think Hughes has no choice but to blossom. If he doesn't turn it around here, he'll never get back to his "glory days" with the Wizards.

I think Nas does have a point in that while perusing Gooden's stats, he pretty much has averaged around 9-10 FGA per game (not all that much) and his rebounding numbers are fairly solid. Obviously you have a lot of other people that are going to be taking a lot of shots, but I don't think near the level of what LeBron and Z take so his numbers may go up if he gets more touches

I don't have any problem with him being 'our PF' for the next 6 years as long as he isn't near the best player on the team

I must have saw a different series than you did.

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Same here.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Pick a side Nas.

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37% for a big man is a lot different

Still, 37% for Hughes sucks too

I wasnt going to bring this up, because both of us dislike stats to a certain extent and know they can be deceiving, but the numbers do agree with me actually.

Gooden's PER 12.8
Joe Smith's PER 17.4

It's actually not even close.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul