It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 11:34 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82220
The first wave has developed far quicker than expected

The tankless rebuild

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72380
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
The kids can play

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:55 am
Posts: 6549
pizza_Place: Giordano's
Meanwhile.....Q's stock is plummeting


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:01 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79553
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
Cashman wrote:
Meanwhile.....Q's stock is plummeting



That's the beauty of it, it's really not. That fact that a pitcher's losses are regarded as "meaningless" is helping maintain his value. He's had two bad innings. Conventional "wisdom" looks beyond that. And beyond his losing record over 150 starts.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:55 am
Posts: 6549
pizza_Place: Giordano's
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Meanwhile.....Q's stock is plummeting



That's the beauty of it, it's really not. That fact that a pitcher's losses are regarded as "meaningless" is helping maintain his value. He's had two bad innings. Conventional "wisdom" looks beyond that. And beyond his losing record over 150 starts.



I don't care about W/L's I am looking at 23 base runners over 17.1 IP.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Meanwhile.....Q's stock is plummeting



That's the beauty of it, it's really not. That fact that a pitcher's losses are regarded as "meaningless" is helping maintain his value. He's had two bad innings. Conventional "wisdom" looks beyond that. And beyond his losing record over 150 starts.



I don't care about W/L's I am looking at 23 base runners over 17.1 IP.


It's been 3 starts. Let's not jump the gun here. And by this logic James Shields is now a a valuable trade piece.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:55 am
Posts: 6549
pizza_Place: Giordano's
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Meanwhile.....Q's stock is plummeting



That's the beauty of it, it's really not. That fact that a pitcher's losses are regarded as "meaningless" is helping maintain his value. He's had two bad innings. Conventional "wisdom" looks beyond that. And beyond his losing record over 150 starts.



I don't care about W/L's I am looking at 23 base runners over 17.1 IP.


It's been 3 starts. Let's not jump the gun here. And by this logic James Shields is now a a valuable trade piece.

All I am saying is if they sold now, it would be selling low.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:31 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79553
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
Cashman wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Meanwhile.....Q's stock is plummeting



That's the beauty of it, it's really not. That fact that a pitcher's losses are regarded as "meaningless" is helping maintain his value. He's had two bad innings. Conventional "wisdom" looks beyond that. And beyond his losing record over 150 starts.



I don't care about W/L's I am looking at 23 base runners over 17.1 IP.


It's been 3 starts. Let's not jump the gun here. And by this logic James Shields is now a a valuable trade piece.

All I am saying is if they sold now, it would be selling low.


I think that's the point. The time to sell high hasn't come yet. That's why he's still pitching for the White Sox.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:37 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

It's been 3 starts. Let's not jump the gun here. And by this logic James Shields is now a a valuable trade piece.
Shields was traded last year with numbers that were mediocre at the very best. Qunitana will be fine.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Meanwhile.....Q's stock is plummeting



That's the beauty of it, it's really not. That fact that a pitcher's losses are regarded as "meaningless" is helping maintain his value. He's had two bad innings. Conventional "wisdom" looks beyond that. And beyond his losing record over 150 starts.



I don't care about W/L's I am looking at 23 base runners over 17.1 IP.


It's been 3 starts. Let's not jump the gun here. And by this logic James Shields is now a a valuable trade piece.

All I am saying is if they sold now, it would be selling low.


I think that's the point. The time to sell high hasn't come yet. That's why he's still pitching for the White Sox.


I disagree. Regardless of whether they are individual innings, I think he starts to get picked at in ways he wasn't before. The ideal time was this past offseason. Whether the reason is wins or losses or just watching him play, I don't think Q is going to maintain the same level of pitching that he has had over the past couple years, and I do think that part of his "ceiling" is reflected in his wins and losses throughout the years (I just don't weight it as much as you do - I still think he has pitched well overall).

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:55 am
Posts: 6549
pizza_Place: Giordano's
Frank Coztansa wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

It's been 3 starts. Let's not jump the gun here. And by this logic James Shields is now a a valuable trade piece.
Shields was traded last year with numbers that were mediocre at the very best. Qunitana will be fine.



And what higher up, do you think made that call? Kenny?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:10 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
It doesn't matter who made the call. The fact is that he was a proven starting pitcher and was tradeable. Quintana will be as well.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Frank Coztansa wrote:
It doesn't matter who made the call. The fact is that he was a proven starting pitcher and was tradeable. Quintana will be as well.


You really don't think he's losing value right now, though?

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 pm
Posts: 19521
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
It doesn't matter who made the call. The fact is that he was a proven starting pitcher and was tradeable. Quintana will be as well.


You really don't think he's losing value right now, though?


It's ridiculous to think he's losing value based on three starts. His value will be determined by several circumstances even beyond his performance such as need of the team trying to acquire him for example and other pitchers on the trade market. If you think he's not that good and going to be exposed that is a different argument that many here have been having for the last year or so.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:21 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
It doesn't matter who made the call. The fact is that he was a proven starting pitcher and was tradeable. Quintana will be as well.
You really don't think he's losing value right now, though?
Absolutely not. Its been 3 games. If 5 weeks from now we are talking about a 1-5 Quintana with a 5+ ERA, or he has an injury, then yes we might have a problem. Quintana has been one of the best and one of the most consistent pitchers in the AL over the last 2-3 seasons. This stretch should be the exception, not the rule.

Are you worried about the Cubs right now after 12 games? Sure they might not (Won't) win 103 games and have a historically great defense and/or run differential, but do you really think the Reds or the Pirates are a legitimate 92-95 win team to threaten the Cubs in the division?

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
It doesn't matter who made the call. The fact is that he was a proven starting pitcher and was tradeable. Quintana will be as well.


You really don't think he's losing value right now, though?


It's ridiculous to think he's losing value based on three starts. His value will be determined by several circumstances even beyond his performance such as need of the team trying to acquire him for example and other pitchers on the trade market. If you think he's not that good and going to be exposed that is a different argument that many here have been having for the last year or so.


No, it's not. If he turns it around, it's moot, but if he continues to pitch and have "one bad inning" a game, it will drop. And the fact that other variables will impact his value doesn't mean that his current performance isn't a variable.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Frank Coztansa wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
It doesn't matter who made the call. The fact is that he was a proven starting pitcher and was tradeable. Quintana will be as well.
You really don't think he's losing value right now, though?
Absolutely not. Its been 3 games. If 5 weeks from now we are talking about a 1-5 Quintana with a 5+ ERA, or he has an injury, then yes we might have a problem. Quintana has been one of the best and one of the most consistent pitchers in the AL over the last 2-3 seasons. This stretch should be the exception, not the rule.

Are you worried about the Cubs right now after 12 games? Sure they might not (Won't) win 103 games and have a historically great defense and/or run differential, but do you really think the Reds or the Pirates are a legitimate 92-95 win team to threaten the Cubs in the division?


Not at all. That's not what I'm arguing. You're preaching to the choir with sample size. I'm talking about the perception of Quintana, whether correct or not. He could struggle for half the year, get traded, and then become completely dominant. I can't predict the future... I just think it's a risky endeavor to have kept him if a true rebuild is the goal. However, as of right now, not so sure the Sox don't have enough to compete. And if they do, they should, IMO.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:26 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
I think some fans perception of Quintana can be a lot different than a baseball exec's perception of Quintana.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:55 am
Posts: 6549
pizza_Place: Giordano's
Everyone is tradeable, it just matters what the asking price is.

I guess to be more clear: During the offseason the pool of teams to trade with is great than mid-season when it is teams in contention. Based on Hahn not receiving offers he liked in the offseason, these 3 starts do not help his cause. But all it takes is 1 team willing to give up the right price.

I like what they got for Sale, but they did not get Sale's full value.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Frank Coztansa wrote:
I think some fans perception of Quintana can be a lot different than a baseball exec's perception of Quintana.


Oh, I just watch on TV, usually.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:20 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79553
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't think Q is going to maintain the same level of pitching that he has had over the past couple years


What is it that leads you to believe that? I expect him to be pretty much the same as he always has been: 200 innings, 1.2 WHIP, 3.50 ERA, a game or two under .500. A lot of people call that "GREAT". Some of them work for big league teams.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Lack of Chris Sale's leadership.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Let me rephrase: I don't necessarily think it will get lower, but I think there's a better chance of that than it getting higher. And if it does go higher, it will be due to external variables such as a dying need of a team at the deadline. I just think it's a risky endeavor to hold onto him too long if the goal is to eventually trade him.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:31 am 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Of course its risky. You take a chance every day. You take a chance getting up in the morning, crossing the street, or sticking your face in a fan

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:55 am
Posts: 6549
pizza_Place: Giordano's
I don't think the goal is to trade him under this regime. He has a very nice contract and isn't crazy(that we have seen). I think he might part of this "rebuild". Why would they trade him? Pending some crazy offer is proposed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Of course its risky. You take a chance every day. You take a chance getting up in the morning, crossing the street, or sticking your face in a fan


Relax, Frank. It's not a critique of your beloved White Sox... it's just an observation. Obviously, my point is that this is a risk I wouldn't take (but we obviously have limited information since we don't know what the market was for him in the offseason).

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Of course its risky. You take a chance every day. You take a chance getting up in the morning, crossing the street, or sticking your face in a fan


Relax, Frank. It's not a critique of your beloved White Sox... it's just an observation. Obviously, my point is that this is a risk I wouldn't take (but we obviously have limited information since we don't know what the market was for him in the offseason).


Hahn was on some show and basically said no offer was close. Nothing he even had to sit and think about.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:55 am
Posts: 6549
pizza_Place: Giordano's
Hank Scorpio wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Of course its risky. You take a chance every day. You take a chance getting up in the morning, crossing the street, or sticking your face in a fan


Relax, Frank. It's not a critique of your beloved White Sox... it's just an observation. Obviously, my point is that this is a risk I wouldn't take (but we obviously have limited information since we don't know what the market was for him in the offseason).


Hahn was on some show and basically said no offer was close. Nothing he even had to sit and think about.



That doesn't give too much info. We don't know what they are looking for except top prospects.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:10 pm
Posts: 38609
Location: "Across 110th Street"
I just want to believe that the Frazier to Toronto calls are close to completion.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 10793
Location: Parrish, FL
pizza_Place: 1. Peaquods 2. Aurelios
Regular Reader wrote:
I just want to believe that the Frazier to Toronto calls are close to completion.

yes, please

_________________
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
brick (/brik/) verb
1. block or enclose with a wall of bricks
2. Proper response would be to ask an endless series of follow ups until the person regrets having spoken to you in the first place.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group