Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I don't know who deserves more credit honestly. I do think Krause deserves more credit than he gets and Jackson deserves less than he gets though.
How so? To me they equally get credit in proportion to the role they played:
Krause gets credit for acquiring players that proved to be of some use to a championship squad. Jackson gets credit for optimizing the talents and skills of the players Krause acquired so they could win games and championships. Moving away from Krause, making Kobe and Shaq work when they were both 20 somethings with massive egos and competing agendas is a modern day management miracle.
They don't get credited equally. Just look at the way you colored your statement. "...Players that proved to be of some use to a championship squad." Meaning every player except Jordan. Jordan could have been like a ton of other great players that never won a damn thing if Krause had not surrounded him with the right guys, including, not insignificantly, Phil "Backstabbin'" Jackson. Phil was driving the bus for the Albany Patroons and had a reputation as a flaky hippie loser when Krause pulled him off the scrap heap. And how did Phil thank Krause? By constantly petitioning Reinsdorf for Krause's job.
Phil is three things- an obnoxious pseudo-intellectual, a backstabbing phony, and a great coach of the best players in the game.
I actually didn't mean to take an underhanded dig at Krause, but I definitely see how it came off that way. Let me rephrase: I give Krause full credit for building the championship teams the way he did. He lusted after Kukoc, got him, and was validated immediately. He also had a lot of underrated moves, like signing Bison Dele, James Edwards (to foul Shaq, essentially), and replacing Grant with Rodman. There were other deft moves as well.
I don't think Phil's backdoor schemes or whatever, particularly those that weren't motivated by Krause's own piss poor conduct, are relevant to the question of credit. Phil fused that team together and harnessed MJ's talents in order to turn that team into a perennial contender. Krause picked great ingredients and PJ turned all of that into something special - the credit can equally go both ways.
FavreFan wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Kobe was in the league for what, like three seasons before Phil showed up? It's hilarious that some of you are like "well, Kobe never won before Phil showed up"
That's not the point. Both Shaq and Kobe were at their best and didn't win with a respected coach. Jackson came on board and they went on a tear. I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened to some degree with a different coach but it didn't and he gets some of the credit. In the end he was the Head Coach of 11 NBA champions. That doesn't happen by luck. Even if he is a pud he deserves to be considered one of the greatest coaches in NBA history.
Kobe was at his best in his 3rd season?
FF I don't think your point about Kobe helps your argument. Kobe won nothing without Phil during his first three years...fine. Then Phil comes along and Kobe wins three rings. Phil leaves and Kobe wins nothing for years. Phil returns and Kobe wins two more rings.
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