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 Post subject: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:14 pm 
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We can't get a budget passed and we also have this:
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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Newper, that is one of the main reasons I advocate for small government. There is no amount of money that will satisify the beast. The state is $35B in debt, has over $100B in unfunded pension obligations, and $10B or so behind on its bills. Our schools are starved of adequate funding, our roads in shambles, Metra with no capital budget, etc etc. How much is enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Not to be all preachy, but the worst part is that we don't get shit in return for those taxes except more taxes. When we lived in CT, it was also a tax-suffocating liberal wet dream, but the public services received were worth it. There was little need to send your kid to private school, and the public parks and reserves were immaculate. In Illinois, you're taxed to death and don't get shit for it, other than crumbling roads and a gay pride parade.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:35 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Not to be all preachy, but the worst part is that we don't get shit in return for those taxes except more taxes. When we lived in CT, it was also a tax-suffocating liberal wet dream, but the public services received were worth it. There was little need to send your kid to private school, and the public parks and reserves were immaculate. In Illinois, you're taxed to death and don't get shit for it, other than crumbling roads and a gay pride parade.

#ThatsCub

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:36 pm 
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newper wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Not to be all preachy, but the worst part is that we don't get shit in return for those taxes except more taxes. When we lived in CT, it was also a tax-suffocating liberal wet dream, but the public services received were worth it. There was little need to send your kid to private school, and the public parks and reserves were immaculate. In Illinois, you're taxed to death and don't get shit for it, other than crumbling roads and a gay pride parade.

#ThatsCub


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Texas is higher than Vermont and California is 8th from the bottom? Fake news. Sad! Pathetic losers!

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:40 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Not to be all preachy, but the worst part is that we don't get shit in return for those taxes except more taxes. When we lived in CT, it was also a tax-suffocating liberal wet dream, but the public services received were worth it. There was little need to send your kid to private school, and the public parks and reserves were immaculate. In Illinois, you're taxed to death and don't get shit for it, other than crumbling roads and a gay pride parade.


I still remember when CT had no income tax. It was a big deal when they added one. Now their taxes are crazy, but hey they're milking Grenwich hedge fund guys, so good for them. I saw an article this weekend, and CT used to be the tax haven of the NE.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:41 pm 
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DannyB wrote:
Texas is higher than Vermont and California is 8th from the bottom? Fake news. Sad! Pathetic losers!


:lol: Nebraska is number two. That can't be right.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:41 pm 
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This is off of Wikipedia -- they are always right!

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-st ... ayer/2416/

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Last edited by newper on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:42 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Not to be all preachy, but the worst part is that we don't get shit in return for those taxes except more taxes. When we lived in CT, it was also a tax-suffocating liberal wet dream, but the public services received were worth it. There was little need to send your kid to private school, and the public parks and reserves were immaculate. In Illinois, you're taxed to death and don't get shit for it, other than crumbling roads and a gay pride parade.


I still remember when CT had no income tax. It was a big deal when they added one. Now their taxes are crazy, but hey they're milking Grenwich hedge fund guys, so good for them. I saw an article this weekend, and CT used to be the tax haven of the NE.


Yeah, not anymore. We also had to pay semi-annual property taxes on our vehicles. MALLOY!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Nebraska has higher property taxes when it comes to rural ground. Also taxes equipment as property if I remember correctly. Had friends bitching about it. Was stunned to hear what they pay per acre.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Bankruptcy is the only remaining option.

There also needs to be some sort of state constitutional amendment to prevent the practice of creating/raising a new tax for the sole purpose of raising the state's credit limit juuuuusssstt enough for them to borrow more money. Hopefully it would prevent the city and county (we all know which city and which county) from doing the same.

That's really the problem, they are just hooked on debt to fund these insane works projects (this 5 year circle interchange project is just brazen). Hence, they budget is "balanced" according to the Illinois constitution but only because they borrow such an insane amount of money to make up the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Drunk Squirrel wrote:
Nebraska has higher property taxes when it comes to rural ground. Also taxes equipment as property if I remember correctly. Had friends bitching about it. Was stunned to hear what they pay per acre.

Well its some of the best agricultural land on the planet.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:00 pm 
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America wrote:
Drunk Squirrel wrote:
Nebraska has higher property taxes when it comes to rural ground. Also taxes equipment as property if I remember correctly. Had friends bitching about it. Was stunned to hear what they pay per acre.

Well its some of the best agricultural land on the planet.


Directly across border property taxes for ground with same CPI and similar land values are half as much. And this land is nothing special.


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:05 pm 
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newper wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Not to be all preachy, but the worst part is that we don't get shit in return for those taxes except more taxes. When we lived in CT, it was also a tax-suffocating liberal wet dream, but the public services received were worth it. There was little need to send your kid to private school, and the public parks and reserves were immaculate. In Illinois, you're taxed to death and don't get shit for it, other than crumbling roads and a gay pride parade.

#ThatsCub

:lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:26 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Not to be all preachy, but the worst part is that we don't get shit in return for those taxes except more taxes. When we lived in CT, it was also a tax-suffocating liberal wet dream, but the public services received were worth it. There was little need to send your kid to private school, and the public parks and reserves were immaculate. In Illinois, you're taxed to death and don't get shit for it, other than crumbling roads and a gay pride parade.

This. Fuck Illinois. Up the ass. No lube. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:12 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Newper, that is one of the main reasons I advocate for small government. There is no amount of money that will satisify the beast. The state is $35B in debt, has over $100B in unfunded pension obligations, and $10B or so behind on its bills. Our schools are starved of adequate funding, our roads in shambles, Metra with no capital budget, etc etc. How much is enough?


Throw in a shrinking population which leaves fewer people each year to pay for this mess. But we are stuck until someone straps 'em on long enough to fix the pension mess.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:17 am 
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The citizens of Illinois have the power to rise up and change this. They do not have the will though. Fixing this or our country as well requires pain. No one likes pain especially when it is felt by themselves personally i.e. pocketbook.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:40 am 
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Welcome to Madiganistan


but hey blame your problems on Rauner, he only inherited your shithole of a state.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:44 am 
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pittmike wrote:
The citizens of Illinois have the power to rise up and change this. They do not have the will though. Fixing this or our country as well requires pain. No one likes pain especially when it is felt by themselves personally i.e. pocketbook.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:45 am 
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Couple of things-

States cannot file bankruptcy. This was an issue back in the 1930's, and because states are considered sovereign entities, federal bankruptcy law does not apply to them. I suspect it would take something similar to what is being done in Puerto Rico to provide relief, meaning an Act of Congress.

The state constitution expressly prohibits meaningful pension reform. Every attempt has been shot down by the State Supreme Court. And let's be honest, pension reform is simply code for cutting benefits guaranteed to workers.

The answer, as it always is, is to live within one's means. But no one will accept meaningful cuts. So it is on the backs of taxpayers. And yes, with a shrinking population base, it makes the job that much tougher.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:50 am 
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pittmike wrote:
The citizens of Illinois have the power to rise up and change this. They do not have the will though. Fixing this or our country as well requires pain. No one likes pain especially when it is felt by themselves personally i.e. pocketbook.

Fixing the problems in the state would mean voting for a different party in state house elections and most people who simply vote for whoever has the "D" next to their name are too fucking stupid to even recognize the the state's fiscal issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:50 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Couple of things-

States cannot file bankruptcy. This was an issue back in the 1930's, and because states are considered sovereign entities, federal bankruptcy law does not apply to them. I suspect it would take something similar to what is being done in Puerto Rico to provide relief, meaning an Act of Congress.

The state constitution expressly prohibits meaningful pension reform. Every attempt has been shot down by the State Supreme Court. And let's be honest, pension reform is simply code for cutting benefits guaranteed to workers.

The answer, as it always is, is to live within one's means. But no one will accept meaningful cuts. So it is on the backs of taxpayers. And yes, with a shrinking population base, it makes the job that much tougher.


It is really worse than that though. It would be one thing to raise some tax and at the very least fix things going forward knowing you cannot cut/fix things of the past. It is another thing when (as most government entities do) is take the "fix it" tax to just continue to kick the can down the road.

Face it there is no real threat of anything for politicians to do the thing that is right.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:51 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Couple of things-

States cannot file bankruptcy. This was an issue back in the 1930's, and because states are considered sovereign entities, federal bankruptcy law does not apply to them. I suspect it would take something similar to what is being done in Puerto Rico to provide relief, meaning an Act of Congress.

The state constitution expressly prohibits meaningful pension reform. Every attempt has been shot down by the State Supreme Court. And let's be honest, pension reform is simply code for cutting benefits guaranteed to workers.

The answer, as it always is, is to live within one's means. But no one will accept meaningful cuts. So it is on the backs of taxpayers. And yes, with a shrinking population base, it makes the job that much tougher.


step one is to get rid of township governments in urbanized areas... those entities are breeding grounds for corrupt politicians and patronage hiring.... on top of being ineffective for managing the small amount of work that they are responsible for.... once that has been accomplished fight the next battle... but to me, townships are the easiest target to get rid of waste


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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:53 am 
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Here's the thing that annoys me. It's great that people get fed up with Democrat states where they are taxed to death and move to more economically friendly states. However, the problem is that those morons leaving the state then come to our states of economic freedom and start voting for the same types of assholes who made their previous state a shithole to begin with. Heck the Illinois citizens fleeing to Texas and Arizona are a prime example of this. We welcome you coming to our low tax states, but stop trying to vote for politicians who want to raise taxes.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:56 am 
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Governments are punch drunk just like many American families. As a society, we don't take no for an answer. We spend money for things we want regardless if we have the means to pay for it. The government is just a reflection of broader society.

The only thing that keeps the mirage going is the U.S. dollar being a reserve currency. Budget deficits, trade deficits, unfunded future liabilities (social security, health care and pensions).

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:56 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Here's the thing that annoys me. It's great that people get fed up with Democrat states where they are taxed to death and move to more economically friendly states. However, the problem is that those morons leaving the state then come to our states of economic freedom and start voting for the same types of assholes who made their previous state a shithole to begin with. Heck the Illinois citizens fleeing to Texas and Arizona are a prime example of this. We welcome you coming to our low tax states, but stop trying to vote for politicians who want to raise taxes.


That is pretty funny. It is like people like that are the same as those addicted to buying QVC shit on TV they do not need.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:57 am 
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This is a problem that is far bigger than just the state. The government is basically dominated by special interests and too big too fail type entities that have to get theirs first even if it means the ship sinks.

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Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:59 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Here's the thing that annoys me. It's great that people get fed up with Democrat states where they are taxed to death and move to more economically friendly states. However, the problem is that those morons leaving the state then come to our states of economic freedom and start voting for the same types of assholes who made their previous state a shithole to begin with. Heck the Illinois citizens fleeing to Texas and Arizona are a prime example of this. We welcome you coming to our low tax states, but stop trying to vote for politicians who want to raise taxes.


You did see that Nebraska was second on the list right? And how is the Kansas "starve the beast plan" working out?

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 Post subject: Re: Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:04 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
This is a problem that is far bigger than just the state. The government is basically dominated by interests from special interests and too big too fail type entities that have to get theirs first even if it means the ship sinks.


indeed, crony capitalism is a scourge- farm subsidies, ExIm bank, SBA financing, Fannie/Freddie mortgage subsidies, Student Loan guarantees just to name a few. And each of them have very good missions, but the distorting effects and the corporate boondoggles built around them are toxic.

I still love that we pay twice as much for sugar as any other country in the world. The whole fricking reason that soda makers use HFC instead of cane sugar. What a racket....

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