It is currently Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:23 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 206 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:57 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79470
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
So what's the verdict on him so far at leadoff ? He's doing the job OBO wise but needs a little more consistency with the bat, no?


He's doing what a leadoff man is supposed to do but I think his presence is also supporting the traditional thinking about hitter placement.



I wouldn't say that after just a month. Anyway, I think batting order is probably an overrated concern. The problem is, does a guy like Schwarber take a different approach because he believes he's supposed to.


I hope not. I guess that might be a concern when he's truly leading off, but after that, he's just getting more at-bats than anyone else in random order.


Yes and no. The batter still has it in his mind that he has all these big bats behind him. So maybe he takes a different approach. As you say, you would hope that isn't the case, but that's the only real concern with batting a guy like him up top. These traditions are deeply ingrained.

If the goal is to score the most overall runs the batters should probably just be ordered from highest OPS to lowest.


Well, if it's due to the batters behind him, I wouldn't think it would change his approach much. Unless I'm misremembering, I don't think Schwarber ever spent a significant amount of time any lower in the order than second. He has always batted with Bryant, Rizzo, Zobrist, etc behind him. He batted second in the 2015 postseason, too, which is when he had his most success.

I guess we'll never really know, but I wouldn't move him unless his production starts to get bad... and then it's just more that I don't want a leadoff hitter who's hitting poorly.


We don't have a large enough sample to know either way. I'm pretty sure he may be leading baseball in the amount of pitches seen. Not a bad thing for a leadoff man. His OBP is plenty respectable too. But personally, if I've got Babe Ruth, I'm hoping for him to get beyond first base on his own a lot and ideally with guys on base.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
How has no one tried to murder you before?

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:03 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79470
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 38675
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?

:lol:

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 38675
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.

Way back in the 80s and before all the baseball genuis stuff when my friends and I were big into Stat O Matic we didn't really know crap about advanced metrics but we sure as shit knew by looking at Brian Downings player card that he sure as shit got on base a lot. Throw Gary Redus in that mix too and why Rance fucking Mulliniks was traded straight up for Cal Ripken.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 4034
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


Yikes. In two years the JORR approved comp for Schwarber went from Matt Stairs to Brian Downing.

Wow, that's a huge jump in value. JORR I like how your opinion on Schwarber is trending.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 9340
pizza_Place: Lou Malnati's
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?

:lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 33067
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


Yikes. In two years the JORR approved comp for Schwarber went from Matt Stairs to Brian Downing.

Wow, that's a huge jump in value. JORR I like how your opinion on Schwarber is trending.


I just looked. Those two have nearly the exact same numbers. They are silly close. Stairs had about the same number of homers in a lot less AB's. Downing had a much higher WAR though.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:28 am
Posts: 4034
denisdman wrote:
One Post wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


Yikes. In two years the JORR approved comp for Schwarber went from Matt Stairs to Brian Downing.

Wow, that's a huge jump in value. JORR I like how your opinion on Schwarber is trending.


I just looked. Those two have nearly the exact same numbers. They are silly close. Stairs had about the same number of homers in a lot less AB's. Downing had a much higher WAR though.


If you were drafting one of those guys and would get his entire career for your team who would you take? It's not close.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
JORR has a game he plays, and frankly, I admire it a bit (but just a bit).

He takes players whose numbers are shockingly good relative to their lack of notoriety. He then compares those players to young Cubs as comps. When questioned, he acts surprised and says "What? Nick Swisher was a solid hitter for a long time." While the reality of his statement is true, he knows damn well that he's using them as a comp because they were never given enough credit during their career (players who played during the steroid era but probably didn't use steroids are perfect for this). Also, when a Cub fan calls him out, it gives him the ability to say, "What?! You don't want a guy with 250+ career homers!? I guess all Cub prospects are going to be Hall of Famers!"

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82153
leashyourkids wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
So what's the verdict on him so far at leadoff ? He's doing the job OBO wise but needs a little more consistency with the bat, no?


He's doing what a leadoff man is supposed to do but I think his presence is also supporting the traditional thinking about hitter placement.



I wouldn't say that after just a month. Anyway, I think batting order is probably an overrated concern. The problem is, does a guy like Schwarber take a different approach because he believes he's supposed to.


So do you think his placement is revolutionizing the thought on placement?

I don't think you can make an argument that the leadoff spot has maximized his run producing potential.


I don't think batting order has any real effect on production, and if it does, it's negligible. Generally speaking, I just want my best hitters to get more PA's and to have a varied approach among the order (lefty, righty, patient, free swinger, first pitch swinger, patient hitter, etc.)


You certainly want more AB for your best hitters (which isn't Schwarber). However, you want as many important AB (ones with runners on base) for those hitters as possible. You have eliminated that possibility at least once per game by batting him first.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82153
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
So what's the verdict on him so far at leadoff ? He's doing the job OBO wise but needs a little more consistency with the bat, no?


He's doing what a leadoff man is supposed to do but I think his presence is also supporting the traditional thinking about hitter placement.



I wouldn't say that after just a month. Anyway, I think batting order is probably an overrated concern. The problem is, does a guy like Schwarber take a different approach because he believes he's supposed to.


I hope not. I guess that might be a concern when he's truly leading off, but after that, he's just getting more at-bats than anyone else in random order.


Yes and no. The batter still has it in his mind that he has all these big bats behind him. So maybe he takes a different approach. As you say, you would hope that isn't the case, but that's the only real concern with batting a guy like him up top. These traditions are deeply ingrained.

If the goal is to score the most overall runs the batters should probably just be ordered from highest OPS to lowest.


Well, if it's due to the batters behind him, I wouldn't think it would change his approach much. Unless I'm misremembering, I don't think Schwarber ever spent a significant amount of time any lower in the order than second. He has always batted with Bryant, Rizzo, Zobrist, etc behind him. He batted second in the 2015 postseason, too, which is when he had his most success.

I guess we'll never really know, but I wouldn't move him unless his production starts to get bad... and then it's just more that I don't want a leadoff hitter who's hitting poorly.


You think he's hitting well?

He's getting on base well, which makes him a good leadoff hitter.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82153
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


It's like the end of an M. Night Shamalan picture for these Cub fans.

You have to allow them a few angry posts while the shock of reality sets in. They don't really mean the mean words they use during that time.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
He's not hitting "poorly" and it's a small sample at this point. I certainly wouldn't move him for a prototypical leadoff hitter at this point. John Jay is the prototype, but give me Schwarber at number one and I'm fine. The way the Cubs have structured their team, even the positions that typically generate leadoff hitters have guys with decent OBP's and higher OPS. Russell isn't a contact guy, nor is Baez or Almora. And I'm still not convinced on Heyward until he keeps up this production for a couple months.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
good dolphin wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
How has no one tried to murder you before?



I apologize for leading you to the realization that Schwarber is Brian Downing and not Babe Ruth.


It's like the end of an M. Night Shamalan picture for these Cub fans.

You have to allow them a few angry posts while the shock of reality sets in. They don't really mean the mean words they use during that time.


We just won the World Series. Do you really think we're upset that our leadoff hitter who gets on base all the time isn't hitting for a high average through 20 games?

Edit: Also, Shyamalan has a "y".

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
good dolphin wrote:
You certainly want more AB for your best hitters (which isn't Schwarber). However, you want as many important AB (ones with runners on base) for those hitters as possible..


So... you think Schwarber batting first is good?

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:28 pm
Posts: 6211
Location: Knoxville,Ill
pizza_Place: Caseys
leashyourkids wrote:
He's not hitting "poorly" and it's a small sample at this point. I certainly wouldn't move him for a prototypical leadoff hitter at this point. John Jay is the prototype, but give me Schwarber at number one and I'm fine. The way the Cubs have structured their team, even the positions that typically generate leadoff hitters have guys with decent OBP's and higher OPS. Russell isn't a contact guy, nor is Baez or Almora. And I'm still not convinced on Heyward until he keeps up this production for a couple months.

Correct. And a 20 game sample size is a small window. Schwarber has been on enough and the leadoff spot is not a major issue now. Jay is not a guy I want leading off. Or playing everyday. Leave it alone for now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:02 pm
Posts: 11735
pizza_Place: Angelo's Pizza in Downers Grove
Wouldn't mind switching him and Zobrist - if Zobrist was hitting better.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
pizza_Place: Lou's, Pequod's
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.

_________________
1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79470
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 38675
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."

Yeah I'm not sure it isn't time to start worrying about his .220-.230 average he's been at most of the year.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:29 pm
Posts: 55851
pizza_Place: Barstool One Bite Frozen
Schwarber feels very idiosyncratic to me. He reminds me of Chris Shelton, the guy who hit like 20 home runs in a month for the Tigers and then got designated for assignment.

_________________
Molly Lambert wrote:
The future holds the possibility to be great or terrible, and since it has not yet occurred it remains simultaneously both.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 40616
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."


Babe Ruth.

_________________
Elections have consequences.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 13865
Location: France
pizza_Place: Baranabyis
Fucking Indians dont completely shit the bed in that series and we escape this Cubs era without the doomsday scenario. I hope Cleveland burns down.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:23 pm
Posts: 7415
Location: Liquor in the front, Poker in the rear
pizza_Place: Lou's, Pequod's
Curious Hair wrote:
Schwarber feels very idiosyncratic to me. He reminds me of Chris Shelton, the guy who hit like 20 home runs in a month for the Tigers and then got designated for assignment.

He'll be better than AAAA Shelton I suspect.... would Cub fans accept Chris Davis' career?

_________________
1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82153
badrogue17 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Apologist wrote:
In 102 PA, he has a 31.4 K%, .153 ISO, .300 BABIP, and 94 WRC+

That's not very good for a guy who can't field a lick.


"One of the best hitters in baseball."

Yeah I'm not sure it isn't time to start worrying about his .220-.230 average he's been at most of the year.


This year? That is around his career. You were blinded by a plastic box

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:28 pm
Posts: 6211
Location: Knoxville,Ill
pizza_Place: Caseys
America wrote:
Fucking Indians dont completely shit the bed in that series and we escape this Cubs era without the doomsday scenario. I hope Cleveland burns down.

As I have told you before pour gas on yourself and light a match. Make sure you are in Cleveland and we have two needs accomplished in one swift strike of a flame. Thanks in advance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 38675
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
I'll take the .400 plus average in the World Series and the championship it brought. 2016

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
badrogue17 wrote:
I'll take the .400 plus average in the World Series and the championship it brought. 2016


Some of the comments are such poor trolling, it's like responding to a first grader. Better just to ignore him when he screams and let him self-soothe when he realizes no one gives a shit.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:05 am
Posts: 25181
Location: Cultural Mecca
pizza_Place: Pequod's / Barnaby's
Should have traded him.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 206 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group