You hated the Thibs guys they had last season too and used that as an excuse for Hoiberg's failure to make the postseason as well. The guy you're now claiming isn't shit was exactly one of the players expected to flourish under the genius offensive coaching and player development of The Mayor.

Damn for the sake of repititious use of a word. This is revisionist and no one will call you on it unless I do it. That is why I'm going to do it. The Bulls had injuries last season. That was the primary reason that I believed that they underachieved. I provided statistics on the number of games lost to injuries (twice that of Thibs the previous season by the way). There are guys i didn't like (Moore Taj) but overall I thought they were a talented team.

I even provided evidence for it and the record of the Bulls once Noah went out.

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You sure do pick a fine time to disagree with the relative positions of Bulls players.

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NBA players aren't the sharpest. I won't base my opinions on their opinions. Aren't you the biggest fan of the eye test? Does Hoiberg pass yours?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

And as I've pointed out again and again, the guys they had injured last season weren't top of the line players. Noah had already been relegated to the bench by Coach Fred, which of course he also lied about (just like he did this year with Rondo, great leadership right?). Don't sit here and try to tell me that the guy Hoiberg determined wasn't good enough to start was somehow a crucial missing piece.

I would also point out that Thibs had no issue making the playoffs when the Bulls lost 188 games due injuries in 2012-2013. Now here's the part where you claim that's disingenuous because Rose accounted for a sizable portion of those games lost, but I'm gonna go ahead and make the most audacious claim that the Bulls losing Rose that season was far more significant than Hoiberg not having benchwarmer status Joakim Noah and a Mike Dunleavy who was scarcely better than his replacements available for significant portions of 2015-2016.

I have reservations about Hoiberg but I don't think that He is anywhere near the albatross that some have portrayed him to be. If he were then they should be able to state how a better coach would have drastically improved the team. They rarely if ever do. Its standard meatball stuff about "he stinks" he's terrible ya ya ya. At least when I bashed Thibs I could point to specific stuff. Gets old after awhile.

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And just so everyone is clear, lying to the media about communication with players, not communicating to Rondo why he was benched, not figuring out a consistent rotation, avoiding communicating with players about sensitive issues, and not holding players accountable is not specific stuff.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The Bulls "met expectations" this year which clearly means Fred Hoiberg is at least competent, even though I cannot be bothered to articulate a single thing he does well.

When Noah was injured the Bulls record was 23-15 and he'd really started to play well. Hoiberg never lied about Rondo being benched he simply benched him and didn't provide an explanation. Another revisionism. Maybe Hoiberg benched Rondo because he wasn't meshing with Wade and Butler. As far as demonstrating whether he was a crucial piece obviously he was as evidence by the team going 2-0 during the playoffs with him and 4-0 without him.

Thibs got a revival year out of Gasol and a Bustout year with Butler and Rose still playing at a high level and still couldn't do shit.


Gasol had already begun to slow down last season and I stated that the Bulls were doomed as soon as saw Taj getting the Bulk of the minutes.

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The Bulls have about 10 players on their roster that are unproven. How is anyone going to find a consistent rotation from that? As far as finding a consistent rotation the vast majority of people on here that bash him for not having it don't really agree on what it should be either. ONe minute its play Canaan the next its MCW the Next its Portis. At other times its why isn't he playing Valentine.

We have one poster that applauded Hoiberg for benching Rondo then bashed him later for playing him.

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When he has a legit PG "Hoiball" has been shown to work well. He also took a stand against playing Payne though surprisingly no one has ever mentioned it here.

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A better coach (pretty much any other coach) would have been able to run an offense and defense that can correctly use the team's personnel. The team, even despite the flaws many players exhibit, should have been a five or a six seed in the East. Hoiberg has no idea how to use one of the Top 10 players in the NBA. He benched Rajon Rondo in order to start three point guards that probably shouldn't be playing any minutes. How has he helped develop Valentine and Payne? Why does he sit Robin Lopez each time he starts to win the matchup with opposing teams?

edit: I'm not done. Mirotic and McDermott were main reasons why Hoiberg was brought to Chicago. They are the type of players that should flourish with him. They've been brutal.

When is he required to answer to any of the above? This isn't one or two failures being weighed against his successes. He has no successes. There is not one thing he can hang his hat on.

Vinny Del Negro had more success as a Bulls head coach than Fred Hoiberg. Vinny del Fucking Negro.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Rondo definitely accused Hoiberg of lying to him in the offseason though since he claimed he was assured he'd be given the opportunity to call plays on the offensive end of the ball. But fine, if you really to score points, the Noah and Rondo situations weren't exact parallels. Rather than lying to the media about what a player said to him, Hoiberg merely "miscommunicated." This shows great on the job growth by Hoiberg. Our Fred is learning!

The 6 game winning streak the Bulls had around New Year took place with Noah already sitting with his initial injury. Please stop pretending that his injury was some kind of significant blow to the coach that benched him.

Hoiberg had more total games played by Gasol, Rose, and Butler than the team that should've defeated Lebron did. Gasol's numbers did not exactly fall off a cliff between the two seasons. Try again.

Rose also played the first 6-8 weeks with a damn mask on which obviously affected his play. You and others consistently failed to sight that and as far as Noah goes the Bulls were 8 games better with him and -6 with him out. They were 8 games better with him out and Rose playing like shit due to the mask. Noah was avg 10 boards a game and about 4 or 5 assists and had begun to put double doubles while playing about 22 minutes a game. Continue on with the "he wasn't really a factor if you like"


Another thing if Thibs was such the guy then why in the hell have the last 2 teams that he has coached been underachievers?

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But the Rose Thibs had in 2014-2015 entered the year as fit as could be? Why aren't you mentioning the fact that it was his first full season back after going down yet again the preceding year?

Again, your statistics for Noah are rubbish. The Bulls were 8-2 in the games without Noah before they pulled the plug on him for the season. He scored double digits on exactly two occasions that season, so it's a bit difficult to see how he was starting to get double doubles. Taj Gibson averaged 7 more points and 5 fewer rebounds per 36 minutes this season compared to Noah that year so perhaps he too was a crucial missing piece after he was traded away?

Finally, you're about the only person who still regards Thibs' last year with the Bulls as a matter of underachieving. Your entire expectations framework remains illogical, since one of the primary reasons Thibodeau has such high expectations in Minnesota is because of his previous success, and one of the reasons for the low expectations for this year's Bulls team is what Hoiberg had displayed as a coach his first season (very little).

Did Thibs underachieve with Minnesota this year yeah or nay? I will address the other parts later but I want to know your thoughts on that?

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Bulls under Thibbs were not underachievers...you bring up Rose playing with a mask for Hoiberg yet fail to mention the year and half he missed under Thibbs

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I will be clear about Thibs bashing. First four years I give him a pass. That last year I saw chinks in the Thibs armor.

I find it very interesting that the Thibs supporters give him a pass for losing to Philly but diss the hell out of Hoiberg for losing to Boston. Talk about hypocrisy.

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Did Thibs underachieve with Minnesota this year yeah or nay?

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I regrettably also gave Thibs a pass for winning over 60 games his first two seasons. Should have seen the red flags all over the place.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Of course Wade wants the Bulls to bring Hoiberg back. He's gonna be in Cleveland next year.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Sad but prob true and prob what is best for the Bulls.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Bad choice of words.


You surely give him a pass for losing to Philly despite having superior talent yet you bash Hoiberg for losing to Boston with inferior talent. Somehow the incongruity eludes you.

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The Bulls lost their best player (Rose) before the series started and lost their 2nd best player (Noah) during the series. It would be like Boston playing us without Thomas and Horford.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Once Rose and Noah were gone for the series they no longer had superior talent to Philly. You're acting like they lost to an 8 seed for no reason.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That 8th seed was 38-44. You can't diss Hoiberg for losing to Boston without Rondo yet Give Thibs a pass for losing to Philly. Boston is better than the Bulls at full strength. Rondo is their 2nd best player and his loss was a death knell yet Hoiberg is to blame somehow. I bring up Thibs as a means of highlighting the inconsistency in the argument. It can be acceptable for one and not the other. And "bite me" to quote the great Walt with the Thibs gets a pass because of what he has accomplished stuff. He has taken the team to one conf finals and loss 4 straight after being the Number 1 seed.

The highlight of his playoff coaching career was defeating a dysfunctional underachieving N.J. team already on its 2nd coach that season. If Thibs was the coach everyone suggests he should have been able to beat a beatable Philly team.

David Blatt coached circles around him without the benefit of two all stars.

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Almost none of this is true.

And yeah, Rondo is probably the 2nd best player on the team. So why are you defending a coach who benched him for half the season for no reason? If Rondo plays all year the Bulls get 44-46 wins and are probably in the 2nd round right now.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't think anyone is bashing Freddie Shine Box for losing to Boston. I personally bash Hoiberg because he's not HC material. Maybe offensive coordinator, but not HC.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The players did

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

The legend of Rondo's benching grows by the day. He wasn't bench for half a season. He was benched for 5 games and brought in with the 2nd unit for about 15-20. I think he benched Rondo because of an inability to mesh with Wade and Butler. I thought it at the time and I'm convinced of it now. Wade and Butler were dominating the ball and Rondo was being iced out. Benching him also helped him because it allowed him to get comfortable with the 2nd unit. When he came back Butler felt comfortable playing off him.

I know this doesn't apply to you because you are the biggest Rondo guy on the board. Don't you find it amusing the amount of outrage directed at Hoiberg for benching Rondo? I don't recall any of this at the time that he was actually benched.

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