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Have you ever said the N-Word?
Yes 81%  81%  [ 29 ]
No 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Yes, but I'm Terry Bradshaw 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 36
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:23 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
try dropping gay slurs around boys town bars at night. see what happens.

I know for a fact that dropping "P" bombs in certain bars back in the 70s would get you knifed. I don't know if that is still the case, but I sure as hell wouldn't try to find out.


Yelling "LeBron sucks" may get me stabbed by under 30 brothers and yelling "Packers sucks" may get me beat up by Green Bay fans. It's still different from me going to shakes hockey practice and yelling a bunch of antisemitic crap. Society rightly sees one of those 3 things as being worse. If I attacked someone while yelling antisemitic crap I will rightly be charged with a hate crime. The same isn't true if I yelled "Packers suck" and punched FF. Even though I really do hate the Packers.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:25 am 
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I just want to say that this thread is an example of why this board is such a great place.

People from different sides of an issue having a sincere, honest discussion about a difficult topic. They are civil and respectful with each other.

There is the occasionally funny one liner and joke throw in the mix to keep people laughing.

I have enjoyed this thread. Keep up the good work guys.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:27 am 
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what about dropping F bombs in Boystown?

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:31 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
what about dropping F bombs in Boystown?


That will probably get my teeth kicked in too. MANY things can get my teeth kicked in. They all aren't equal to me yelling antisemitic crap even if the results (me getting my ass kicked) are the same.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:33 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Chus wrote:
For those who say both words are on an equal level, go stand on a street corner, and randomly shout both words at passersby. Report back what you find.

Image
:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:34 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Chus wrote:
For those who say both words are on an equal level, go stand on a street corner, and randomly shout both words at passersby. Report back what you find.


The black guy laughed at being called a dumb polack and the white guy looked confused at being called a n***er.

Now what?


Doesn't this sort of prove that there is a difference?

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:39 am 
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RFDC wrote:
I just want to say that this thread is an example of why this board is such a great place.

People from different sides of an issue having a sincere, honest discussion about a difficult topic. They are civil and respectful with each other.

There is the occasionally funny one liner and joke throw in the mix to keep people laughing.

I have enjoyed this thread. Keep up the good work guys.

well said..........

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:42 am 
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Chus wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Chus wrote:
For those who say both words are on an equal level, go stand on a street corner, and randomly shout both words at passersby. Report back what you find.


The black guy laughed at being called a dumb polack and the white guy looked confused at being called a n***er.

Now what?


Doesn't this sort of prove that there is a difference?


I respect nas more than mike?

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:43 am 
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The lack of respect for the humanity of gay men in this thread is jaw dropping.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:43 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The lack of respect for the humanity of gay men in this thread is jaw dropping.

Too easy ...

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:45 am 
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I just stumbled over an unseen chair in a darkened room and called said chair the forbidden word ... does that count?

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:45 am 
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shakes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'll keep this in mind the next time you share an opinion about rape Jewish people and a lot of other issues. How the person feels is all that matters.


I'm not sure what you mean. But it's interesting you bring up Jewish people. They often make the same argument that you seem to be making in that the Holocaust is the worst and most horrible tragedy in human history. I'm not sure if it is or it isn't. I might argue that slavery was worse. But these are dumb arguments. There isn't a scoreboard for suffering.

And if how a person feels is all that matters, why do you think- as you apparently do- that the feelings of certain people trump those of others?



I agree there is no scoreboard, but just in case there is a scoreboard there's no doubt Jews have had it much worse than the blacks.

Here is how I have the scoring..

SLAVERY


Balcks = slaves for a couple hundred years, spent that time in the fields doing gardening.

Jews = slaves for a couple thousand years, spent that time moving and stacking massive concrete blocks in the shape of a pyramid in the middle of the scorching desert. But it's mostly likely true that the Egyptian(African) Jewish slaves were in fact, Black. So we win(?!?)

Score = category goes to Jews in a blowout.

20TH CENTURY OPPRESSION

Balcks = had to sit at the back of the bus (where the cool kids sit) and drink from their own water fountain.

Jews = genocide

Score = another one sided blowout in favor of my peepsThis is 2017 republicanism at it's finest

21st CENTURY OPPRESSION

Balcks = microagressions, make it stop!!!!!! And sometimes a cop shoots you for no reason.

Jews = attempted genocide, ongoing. Better take France off that summer trip to Europe itinerary.

Score = Jews again!



Face it, Jews dominate the field when it comes to getting shit on.Ok, if it makes you feel better :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:48 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
See, HG? You are a deep MF'er. You summed it up very well.

I agree with all you said, and I disagree completely with dolphin.

Anyone is free to take offense to whatever they want, but you are also free to be ridiculed. Saying "the p-word" (lol) isn't the same as saying the "n-word." It's the most powerful word in American English, and it's due in large part to its use and the history of black-white relations in our country. MANY ethnicities have racial stereotypes, but only blacks were brought over as legal slaves, who were considered to be 3/5 of a person, fought for their freedom, and then still didn't have the rights of a white person until very recently (and some would say still don't). That word is a reminder of that awful history and of everything that comes with it. It is used solely to dehumanize and tell someone that they are worth less than you because of the color of their skin. If "the p-word" does similar things to you, then you might have some issues. Europeans had their struggles in America, but it's not even worth mentioning in the same context as blacks and the vitriolic words (still) used to describe them.



I agree with this post 100%. However, and this is the problem with identity politics, groups don't get hurt, people do. And I don't think it's necessarily any more hurtful to call someone "the n-word" than it is to call someone a fat pig or a dumb polack, etc. We have an entire thread here and several mults that make fun of a woman for her appearance. I'm almost certain that's just as hurtful as some dope calling a black person "the n-word".


Now we're back to all slurs/insults/pain is the same. That's a really odd stance.


It's pretty arrogant to think your pain is more painful than someone else's. That's the odd stance.


No it's commonsense. You are free to continue to try to whitewash these things though.

If not arrogant, then not persuasive. It turns people off. You could be right, but....

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:49 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The lack of respect for the humanity of gay men in this thread is jaw dropping.


I love the gays.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:50 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
There isn't a competition over who feels things more deeply.

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
There isn't a scoreboard for suffering.


You must not spend much time on the interwebz.

or on a college campus

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Chus wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Chus wrote:
For those who say both words are on an equal level, go stand on a street corner, and randomly shout both words at passersby. Report back what you find.


The black guy laughed at being called a dumb polack and the white guy looked confused at being called a n***er.

Now what?


Doesn't this sort of prove that there is a difference?


I respect nas more than mike?


:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:02 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
See, HG? You are a deep MF'er. You summed it up very well.

I agree with all you said, and I disagree completely with dolphin.

Anyone is free to take offense to whatever they want, but you are also free to be ridiculed. Saying "the p-word" (lol) isn't the same as saying the "n-word." It's the most powerful word in American English, and it's due in large part to its use and the history of black-white relations in our country. MANY ethnicities have racial stereotypes, but only blacks were brought over as legal slaves, who were considered to be 3/5 of a person, fought for their freedom, and then still didn't have the rights of a white person until very recently (and some would say still don't). That word is a reminder of that awful history and of everything that comes with it. It is used solely to dehumanize and tell someone that they are worth less than you because of the color of their skin. If "the p-word" does similar things to you, then you might have some issues. Europeans had their struggles in America, but it's not even worth mentioning in the same context as blacks and the vitriolic words (still) used to describe them.



I agree with this post 100%. However, and this is the problem with identity politics, groups don't get hurt, people do. And I don't think it's necessarily any more hurtful to call someone "the n-word" than it is to call someone a fat pig or a dumb polack, etc. We have an entire thread here and several mults that make fun of a woman for her appearance. I'm almost certain that's just as hurtful as some dope calling a black person "the n-word".


Now we're back to all slurs/insults/pain is the same. That's a really odd stance.


It's pretty arrogant to think your pain is more painful than someone else's. That's the odd stance.


No it's commonsense. You are free to continue to try to whitewash these things though.

If not arrogant, then not persuasive. It turns people off. You could be right, but....


Have you ever had a bad day or were feeling kinda down about something and had a conversation about it with someone else? After having that conversation have you walked away feeling like your issues were really minor in comparison to theirs? It doesn't change the fact that you were having a bad day but you understood that the person you spoke with were dealing with something worse. That conversation may have even helped you put things in perspective.

Saying everything is equal is lazy to me. We know in our hearts and society has taught us that this just isn't true.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:15 pm 
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the usage of "n" has a connotation that goes back to slavery. when i've heard it used (and i heard it used an awful lot where i grew up...to the point where it affected me quite deeply), it was never on the level of calling someone another derogatory word. it tore at the fabric of the person. it dehumanized them. when it was used, it was meant to be taken as "you should be a slave".

there isn't any other derogatory word that has that context. to try and equalize them is ridiculous. it's like something out of an onion article. but a lot of modern society sounds an awful like an onion article, so...


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:17 pm 
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Historical context matters more than the fact that is a racial or ethnic slur. That's the difference. I once referred to an elderly black guy as that while arguing over a card game years ago. I'm black and didn't understand the images that it conjured up for him. If he were still alive he'd be 95 right now. I was really young probably mid 20''s at the time and he was probably mid upper 70's. A rage set in on him. He was from a rural town in Missouri and that word had a different cultural and historical context for him.

I'm sure Reader is probably familiar with the lounge on 75th where it occurred. Known joint. I realized that I'd have to watch how I used that word. It offended him and just because I don't take as much offense didn't mean that he shouldn't. My experiences with the word were different than his.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:21 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
the usage of "n" has a connotation that goes back to slavery. when i've heard it used (and i heard it used an awful lot where i grew up...to the point where it affected me quite deeply), it was never on the level of calling someone another derogatory word. it tore at the fabric of the person. it dehumanized them. when it was used, it was meant to be taken as "you should be a slave".

there isn't any other derogatory word that has that context. to try and equalize them is ridiculous. it's like something out of an onion article. but a lot of modern society sounds an awful like an onion article, so...


You don't think that burrito has a similar dehumanizing connotation?

I honestly think that it's unfair to black people to place this burden on them that this word is far worst than any other. There is this perception that they have to fight if anyone calls them this word or their masculinity has been stolen.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Have you ever had a bad day or were feeling kinda down about something and had a conversation about it with someone else? After having that conversation have you walked away feeling like your issues were really minor in comparison to theirs? It doesn't change the fact that you were having a bad day but you understood that the person you spoke with were dealing with something worse. That conversation may have even helped you put things in perspective.

Saying everything is equal is lazy to me. We know in our hearts and society has taught us that this just isn't true.

It's equally lazy to assume for people to assume they are right, though. That's the style many have; they assume they are right and then simply repeat that they are right (or ridicule those who disagree) as opposed to dialoguing (which is exactly what people here are doing, which is kinda cool).

Whatevs. I think I am just splitting hairs at this point. But I certainly agree--and I think it is my main point--that we're always learning. (Well, that and people who think they know what The Truth in every situation is are* a little scary.) The hypothetical conversation you mention above suggests that.

* two forms of to be in a row.....I'm writing like a fucking ___________ (insert slur here)

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:30 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:

You don't think that GAY has a similar dehumanizing connotation?

I honestly think that it's unfair to black people to place this burden on them that this word is far worst than any other. There is this perception that they have to fight if anyone calls them this word or their masculinity has been stolen.

Interesting....you guys are really covering many subtle aspects of this issue....really interesting thread you guys are sustaining....not being sarcastic....

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:31 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Historical context matters more than the fact that is a racial or ethnic slur. That's the difference. I once referred to an elderly black guy as that while arguing over a card game years ago. I'm black and didn't understand the images that it conjured up for him. If he were still alive he'd be 95 right now. I was really young probably mid 20''s at the time and he was probably mid upper 70's. A rage set in on him. He was from a rural town in Missouri and that word had a different cultural and historical context for him.

I'm sure Reader is probably familiar with the lounge on 75th where it occurred. Known joint. I realized that I'd have to watch how I used that word. It offended him and just because I don't take as much offense didn't mean that he shouldn't. My experiences with the word were different than his.


As a kid when my generation and yours replaced the "er" with an "a" and tried to make it a term of endearment I didn't understand why older folks were upset by the use of the word. I saw it as removing the power from those who used it to hate. I now see how foolish that thinking was.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:33 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
W_Z wrote:
the usage of "n" has a connotation that goes back to slavery. when i've heard it used (and i heard it used an awful lot where i grew up...to the point where it affected me quite deeply), it was never on the level of calling someone another derogatory word. it tore at the fabric of the person. it dehumanized them. when it was used, it was meant to be taken as "you should be a slave".

there isn't any other derogatory word that has that context. to try and equalize them is ridiculous. it's like something out of an onion article. but a lot of modern society sounds an awful like an onion article, so...


You don't think that GAY has a similar dehumanizing connotation?

I honestly think that it's unfair to black people to place this burden on them that this word is far worst than any other. There is this perception that they have to fight if anyone calls them this word or their masculinity has been stolen.



There is another perception which suggests that blacks shouldn't be offended at all. There is also a persistent undercurrent which suggests that others should have licenseto use it because blacks use it. As I said before I'm much more concerned about being shown it than I am about a person saying it.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Historical context matters more than the fact that is a racial or ethnic slur. That's the difference. I once referred to an elderly black guy as that while arguing over a card game years ago. I'm black and didn't understand the images that it conjured up for him. If he were still alive he'd be 95 right now. I was really young probably mid 20''s at the time and he was probably mid upper 70's. A rage set in on him. He was from a rural town in Missouri and that word had a different cultural and historical context for him.

I'm sure Reader is probably familiar with the lounge on 75th where it occurred. Known joint. I realized that I'd have to watch how I used that word. It offended him and just because I don't take as much offense didn't mean that he shouldn't. My experiences with the word were different than his.


As a kid when my generation and yours replaced the "er" with an "a" and tried to make it a term of endearment I didn't understand why older folks were upset by the use of the word. I saw it as removing the power from those who used it to hate. I now see how foolish that thinking was.


To a degree I think that is what happened. When N.W.A. could use it as part of their group name and people not get offended that spoke volumes.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Historical context matters more than the fact that is a racial or ethnic slur. That's the difference. I once referred to an elderly black guy as that while arguing over a card game years ago. I'm black and didn't understand the images that it conjured up for him. If he were still alive he'd be 95 right now. I was really young probably mid 20''s at the time and he was probably mid upper 70's. A rage set in on him. He was from a rural town in Missouri and that word had a different cultural and historical context for him.

I'm sure Reader is probably familiar with the lounge on 75th where it occurred. Known joint. I realized that I'd have to watch how I used that word. It offended him and just because I don't take as much offense didn't mean that he shouldn't. My experiences with the word were different than his.


As a kid when my generation and yours replaced the "er" with an "a" and tried to make it a term of endearment I didn't understand why older folks were upset by the use of the word. I saw it as removing the power from those who used it to hate. I now see how foolish that thinking was.


I don't think the younger Nas was necessarily foolish. Words only have the power that we give them.

This goes beyond any single word or slur, but there is a growing belief in some quarters- particularly colleges campuses- that words can be violence. Shouldn't that be highly offensive to those who have experienced actual violence?

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:40 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
W_Z wrote:
the usage of "n" has a connotation that goes back to slavery. when i've heard it used (and i heard it used an awful lot where i grew up...to the point where it affected me quite deeply), it was never on the level of calling someone another derogatory word. it tore at the fabric of the person. it dehumanized them. when it was used, it was meant to be taken as "you should be a slave".

there isn't any other derogatory word that has that context. to try and equalize them is ridiculous. it's like something out of an onion article. but a lot of modern society sounds an awful like an onion article, so...


You don't think that GAY has a similar dehumanizing connotation?

I honestly think that it's unfair to black people to place this burden on them that this word is far worst than any other. There is this perception that they have to fight if anyone calls them this word or their masculinity has been stolen.



There is another perception which suggests that blacks shouldn't be offended at all. There is also a persistent undercurrent which suggests that others should have licenseto use it because blacks use it. As I said before I'm much more concerned about being shown it than I am about a person saying it.


I have to amid I don't know that much about the history of the word. Was it always negative? Or was that a more recent development? I really have not thought about it beyond it's bad don't say it, but this has been an interesting conversation.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Chus wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Chus wrote:
For those who say both words are on an equal level, go stand on a street corner, and randomly shout both words at passersby. Report back what you find.


The black guy laughed at being called a dumb polack and the white guy looked confused at being called a n***er.

Now what?


Doesn't this sort of prove that there is a difference?


No, it sort of proves that the words in themselves aren't as powerful as the intent behind the word.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:59 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
the usage of "n" has a connotation that goes back to slavery. when i've heard it used (and i heard it used an awful lot where i grew up...to the point where it affected me quite deeply), it was never on the level of calling someone another derogatory word. it tore at the fabric of the person. it dehumanized them. when it was used, it was meant to be taken as "you should be a slave".

there isn't any other derogatory word that has that context. to try and equalize them is ridiculous. it's like something out of an onion article. but a lot of modern society sounds an awful like an onion article, so...


Don't impose your limited experience of human interactions on the discussion.

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:09 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
W_Z wrote:
the usage of "n" has a connotation that goes back to slavery. when i've heard it used (and i heard it used an awful lot where i grew up...to the point where it affected me quite deeply), it was never on the level of calling someone another derogatory word. it tore at the fabric of the person. it dehumanized them. when it was used, it was meant to be taken as "you should be a slave".

there isn't any other derogatory word that has that context. to try and equalize them is ridiculous. it's like something out of an onion article. but a lot of modern society sounds an awful like an onion article, so...


You don't think that GAY has a similar dehumanizing connotation?

I honestly think that it's unfair to black people to place this burden on them that this word is far worst than any other. There is this perception that they have to fight if anyone calls them this word or their masculinity has been stolen.



There is another perception which suggests that blacks shouldn't be offended at all. There is also a persistent undercurrent which suggests that others should have licenseto use it because blacks use it. As I said before I'm much more concerned about being shown it than I am about a person saying it.


I have to amid I don't know that much about the history of the word. Was it always negative? Or was that a more recent development? I really have not thought about it beyond it's bad don't say it, but this has been an interesting conversation.


It's always been negative. Ambivalence if it exists is recent. One of the connotations for the word related to blacks being ignorant.

When blacks were lynched in the South they'd often be branded with the word after they were lynched. That is the thing that resonates for me more than anything. When I read about it in some of the literature related to slavery it offended me somewhat. When you see it during Jim Crow era photography that's when it hits home.

I think for me as a black person it is used now as a coping mechanism. I come from an environment where it was used freely and ironically as a way that guys endear themselves to their guys. When blacks say "That''s my" they mean it in a way that isn't offensive. In fact it's a way of saying that they'd go to war for them.

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