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Nas
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.


Nas has NEVER advocated for mandatory minimum sentences. Once again you can answer basic questions OR continue deflecting. I think we all see what your preference is.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:17 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.


Nas has NEVER advocated for mandatory minimum sentences. Once again you can answer basic questions OR continue deflecting. I think we all see what your preference is.


Yes, I dislike mandatory sentencing.
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Brick
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:18 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.

Strawman alert!

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Nas
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my questions. Just in case you or JLN ever decide to answer them.


So registering as a sex offender is severe enough punishment for all rapists?
How many people actually know who the sex offenders in their areas are?
Is rape bad?
Is rape a crime that only the offender has to live with?
Why do people become serial rapists?
What should be the punishment for a guy like this or Bill Cosby?
Do you know anyone who has been raped?


Bump for JLN

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.

Strawman alert!


Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He got 240 days for drugging and raping his sister and you say 'yeah but getting a job will be harder!'


Nas wrote:
So registering as a sex offender is severe enough punishment for all rapists?


Indeed.
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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Nas wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my questions. Just in case you or JLN ever decide to answer them.


So registering as a sex offender is severe enough punishment for all rapists?
How many people actually know who the sex offenders in their areas are?
Is rape bad?
Is rape a crime that only the offender has to live with?
Why do people become serial rapists?
What should be the punishment for a guy like this or Bill Cosby?
Do you know anyone who has been raped?


Bump for JLN


Ah, from Long Time Gaymes, another classic: Prove you dislike rape!

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SpiralStairs
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.

Strawman alert!


Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He got 240 days for drugging and raping his sister and you say 'yeah but getting a job will be harder!'


Nas wrote:
So registering as a sex offender is severe enough punishment for all rapists?


Indeed.


So justice was done according to you.

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Nas
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:28 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.

Strawman alert!


Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He got 240 days for drugging and raping his sister and you say 'yeah but getting a job will be harder!'


Nas wrote:
So registering as a sex offender is severe enough punishment for all rapists?


Indeed.


So justice was done according to you.


He can't answer questions. Sad!

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:28 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.

Strawman alert!


Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He got 240 days for drugging and raping his sister and you say 'yeah but getting a job will be harder!'


Nas wrote:
So registering as a sex offender is severe enough punishment for all rapists?


Indeed.


So justice was done according to you.


Isn't the concept of "justice" more procedure-based than results-based? Something something, "the crucible of justice"?
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SpiralStairs
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:31 pm 
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At the start of this thread the tone of your post implied he received too harsh a sentence. Now it appears as though you feel the sentence was appropriate. Which is it?

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Don Tiny
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:32 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
312player wrote:
Remove the sister part and say a 20 year old smoked weed with a 16 year old and banged her. What should the punishment be?

Completely different case ... literally. In your example, the state would be obliged (in short) to prove, among other things, that the 20-year old was aware of her age.

Being brother and sister, that's the 6"-putt in this case.


6 inches you say?

Edit: FUCK

Oddly enough, the defense based their case on her saying precisely that.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:34 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
At the start of this thread the tone of your post implied he received too harsh a sentence. Now it appears as though you feel the sentence was appropriate. Which is it?


Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
For the rest of his life, this guy will enjoy a much reduced level of freedom than you or I. That's hardly "no problem".


That's what I said. It takes a pretty disingenuous reading of that to come away thinking "That's hardly 'no problem'" actually means "the punishment is too harsh".

Can any among you NOT live and die by disingenuous strawmen? And you're a freaking litigator?
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Brick
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:36 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
You don't get to decide what punishment is "fair", even if you are the victim.

In fact, a victim almost certainly should NOT be the person consulted on the severity of imposed punishment.

Funny that Nas and MANY here advocate cookie-cutter jail sentences for anyone convicted of rape, then turn around and cry foul at mandatory sentencing for drug and gun possession charges. Either mandatory sentencing is troublesome in a court system where each and every case is tried on its own merits, or it isn't.

Strawman alert!


Boilermaker Rick wrote:
He got 240 days for drugging and raping his sister and you say 'yeah but getting a job will be harder!'


Nas wrote:
So registering as a sex offender is severe enough punishment for all rapists?


Indeed.
How was my thing a straw man? You brought up victims choosing sentenced and mandatory minimums which I hadn't seen anyone do.

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SpiralStairs
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
At the start of this thread the tone of your post implied he received too harsh a sentence. Now it appears as though you feel the sentence was appropriate. Which is it?


Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
For the rest of his life, this guy will enjoy a much reduced level of freedom than you or I. That's hardly "no problem".


That's what I said. It takes a pretty disingenuous reading of that to come away thinking "That's hardly 'no problem'" actually means "the punishment is too harsh".

Can any among you NOT live and die by disingenuous strawmen? And you're a freaking litigator?


Look man, I'm not a bright guy. I tend to like precise language. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm trying to understand your position.

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Nas
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Clearly he believes that the sex offender registry (that most people don't look at) is sufficient punishment for all rapists. He just lacks the testicular fortitude to come out and say that.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:44 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
At the start of this thread the tone of your post implied he received too harsh a sentence. Now it appears as though you feel the sentence was appropriate. Which is it?


Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
For the rest of his life, this guy will enjoy a much reduced level of freedom than you or I. That's hardly "no problem".


That's what I said. It takes a pretty disingenuous reading of that to come away thinking "That's hardly 'no problem'" actually means "the punishment is too harsh".

Can any among you NOT live and die by disingenuous strawmen? And you're a freaking litigator?


Look man, I'm not a bright guy. I tend to like precise language. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm trying to understand your position.


The thread title says "no problem" in reference to the sentencing of the guy, right? In this context and use "no problem" implies that the sentencing is so light so as to be akin to no punishment at all, like you would say to someone "no problem" for a minor social or conversational infraction or misstep.

Being a registered sex offender for life is not equatable to no punishment at all, as the title implies, because for the rest of his life, the registered sex offender has a lower baseline level of "freedom" than other citizens of this country literally founded on principles of freedom.
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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Clearly he believes that the sex offender registry (that most people don't look at) is sufficient punishment for all rapists. He just lacks the testicular fortitude to come out and say that.


Straw man alert!
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SJWplayer
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:46 pm 
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you dumbasses don't even realize raping your sister is problematic lol
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Nas
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Clearly he believes that the sex offender registry (that most people don't look at) is sufficient punishment for all rapists. He just lacks the testicular fortitude to come out and say that.


Straw man alert!


You've been asked for your opinion (that you are always willing to share for political and social issues) and you've refused to give it. Therefore I am forced to come up with a theory about why you are afraid to answer simple questions.

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Jbi11s
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Clearly he believes that the sex offender registry (that most people don't look at) is sufficient punishment for all rapists. He just lacks the testicular fortitude to come out and say that.


Straw man alert!


You've been asked for your opinion (that you are always willing to share for political and social issues) and you've refused to give it. Therefore I am forced to come up with a theory about why you are afraid to answer simple questions.


I've made my stance plainly clear:

Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
For the rest of his life, this guy will enjoy a much reduced level of freedom than you or I. That's hardly "no problem".


This isn't deceptive language, nor is it coded language, nor ambiguous. You seem to want--demand, even--people to say things you want to hear in the precise manner you wish to hear them. I am not going to indulge that kind of narcissism.
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Well, it is ambiguous.

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Well, it is ambiguous.


And the Bulls do better nationally.
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SpiralStairs
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
At the start of this thread the tone of your post implied he received too harsh a sentence. Now it appears as though you feel the sentence was appropriate. Which is it?


Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
For the rest of his life, this guy will enjoy a much reduced level of freedom than you or I. That's hardly "no problem".


That's what I said. It takes a pretty disingenuous reading of that to come away thinking "That's hardly 'no problem'" actually means "the punishment is too harsh".

Can any among you NOT live and die by disingenuous strawmen? And you're a freaking litigator?


Look man, I'm not a bright guy. I tend to like precise language. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm trying to understand your position.


The thread title says "no problem" in reference to the sentencing of the guy, right? In this context and use "no problem" implies that the sentencing is so light so as to be akin to no punishment at all, like you would say to someone "no problem" for a minor social or conversational infraction or misstep.

Being a registered sex offender for life is not equatable to no punishment at all, as the title implies, because for the rest of his life, the registered sex offender has a lower baseline level of "freedom" than other citizens of this country literally founded on principles of freedom.


Ok. You correctly identified that the title of the thread is inaccurate (which is debatable as Nas believes the punishment wasn't harsh enough). Anything else to contribute?

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:11 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
At the start of this thread the tone of your post implied he received too harsh a sentence. Now it appears as though you feel the sentence was appropriate. Which is it?


Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
For the rest of his life, this guy will enjoy a much reduced level of freedom than you or I. That's hardly "no problem".


That's what I said. It takes a pretty disingenuous reading of that to come away thinking "That's hardly 'no problem'" actually means "the punishment is too harsh".

Can any among you NOT live and die by disingenuous strawmen? And you're a freaking litigator?


Look man, I'm not a bright guy. I tend to like precise language. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm trying to understand your position.


The thread title says "no problem" in reference to the sentencing of the guy, right? In this context and use "no problem" implies that the sentencing is so light so as to be akin to no punishment at all, like you would say to someone "no problem" for a minor social or conversational infraction or misstep.

Being a registered sex offender for life is not equatable to no punishment at all, as the title implies, because for the rest of his life, the registered sex offender has a lower baseline level of "freedom" than other citizens of this country literally founded on principles of freedom.


Ok. You correctly identified that the title of the thread is inaccurate (which is debatable as Nas believes the punishment wasn't harsh enough). Anything else to contribute?


Except it's not debatable, because being a registered sex offender is not "no punishment". It is a punishment, and a serious, perhaps unconstitutional, one at that.
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Nas
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Is that a defense of rapists? The sex offender registry (that the overwhelming majority of people don't look at) is TOO harsh. Now we're getting somewhere.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Is that a defense of rapists? The sex offender registry (that the overwhelming majority of people don't look at) is TOO harsh. Now we're getting somewhere.


I said unconstitutional, not "too harsh".
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Nas
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Is that a defense of rapists? The sex offender registry (that the overwhelming majority of people don't look at) is TOO harsh. Now we're getting somewhere.


I said unconstitutional, not "too harsh".


My bad. I interpreted unconstitutional to mean too harsh/cruel and unusual punishment.

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Nas wrote:
Is that a defense of rapists? The sex offender registry (that the overwhelming majority of people don't look at) is TOO harsh. Now we're getting somewhere.


I said unconstitutional, not "too harsh".


My bad. I interpreted unconstitutional to mean too harsh/cruel and unusual punishment.


"too harsh" is a subset of "cruel and unusual", yes. But it is logically fallacious to say (or imply) that someone who calls a punishment "cruel and unusual" is likewise saying the punishment in question is "too harsh". I forget how to do the little logic math thing, but if that will help you understand it better I can look it up.
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SpiralStairs
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Mods please change title of thread to appease certain bored pedants.

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