What old man JORR forgets is that the Bulls had the best record in NBA history AND won the title. They were historically good. As such, it is absolutely possible to simultaneously think Jordan is GOAT and that Scottie Pippen was one of the greatest of all-time too. JORR, you act like those statements are mutually exclusive, but they're not.

What old man JORR forgets is that the Bulls had the best record in NBA history AND won the title. They were historically good. As such, it is absolutely possible to simultaneously think Jordan is GOAT and that Scottie Pippen was one of the greatest of all-time too. JORR, you act like those statements are mutually exclusive, but they're not. They're arguably the best duo ever.

What I will agree with you on is the perceived infallibility of Jordan by some. There was not a more loyal MJ fan on this planet during his run than I was. I was young, but I think that only added to the mystique. I loved him, and I watched every minute of every game he played during the second threepeat...

That said, there is a decent argument to be made that Lebron is as good as Jordan. I don't personally agree with it, and I think making the argument that he's better would be really tough, but it's not absurd. What Lebron has done is nothing short of amazing. The expectations for this guy were off the chart as a teenager, and he has single-handedly kept the East from becoming a laughing stock. If Lebron James didn't headline these past few teams in the East, the NBA would be embarrassingly lopsided. Basically, any team he is on is coming out of the East. And there's no way you can convince me that exchanging a 32-year-old Lebron for a 32-year-old Jordan (he was 32 in '96 and Lebron has more miles) would have affected the outcome. I believe Jordan to be the GOAT, but it's nonsense to act like there's no argument.

All-in-all, JORR is primarily wrong, as usual, but he is partially correct on that one facet of the argument.

I've never said such a thing wasn't possible, though I don't believe it was the case. It's actually FavreFan who is acting like Worthy and Kareem being better than Pippen and Cartwright automatically makes Jordan better than Magic. The fact is the Bulls never faced a team nearly as good as the Bird-McHale-Parrish-Ainge-DJ Celtics and Magic had to go through them every year.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

No, Jordan was better than Magic because he was better than Magic. Even Magic will tell you that.

I don't put a lot of stock in players' opinions. Ernie Banks said Curt Simmons was the toughest pitcher he ever faced. You know who was the best basketball player ever? Yaz. Lavar Ball says he was better than Jordan. Why don't you believe him?

Look, it's okay to think a guy was the best ever because he was your favorite player as a kid. But stating it as some kind of incontrovertible fact, regardless of how many others join you, doesn't make it so.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

And I agreed with you on that point.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

Okay.

I'm not the one ridiculing anyone who suggests that there might possibly be players who were as good or better than Michael Jordan though. There is no "right" answer, no definitive GOAT.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

I also agree with your point that I wouldn't base my player rankings on what other players say... but Jordan's stature among other players is pretty much unprecedented. Larry Bird called him "God in basketball shoes." Barkley said God spoke to him in a dream that he would win it all in '93, but he didn't realize God actually played for the Bulls. Grant Hill said Jordan was the perfectly created basketball player who had no weaknesses.

Now, I'm not saying that makes him GOAT, but it's not the same as somebody saying some random player was the toughest they ever faced. There's quite the consensus on Jordan..

I think it's assumed it isn't a fact. It's an opinion that Jordan is the answer and the only argument against it seems to be his lack of rebounding statistics.

Jorrs been reduced to dismissing every pro Jordan argument and pretending the only reason we think Jordan is the GOAT is because he was our favorite player growing up. It's not really worth continuing this argument if he's unable to have it on merit

What old man JORR forgets is that the Bulls had the best record in NBA history AND won the title. They were historically good. As such, it is absolutely possible to simultaneously think Jordan is GOAT and that Scottie Pippen was one of the greatest of all-time too. JORR, you act like those statements are mutually exclusive, but they're not. They're arguably the best duo ever.

What I will agree with you on is the perceived infallibility of Jordan by some. There was not a more loyal MJ fan on this planet during his run than I was. I was young, but I think that only added to the mystique. I loved him, and I watched every minute of every game he played during the second threepeat...

That said, there is a decent argument to be made that Lebron is as good as Jordan. I don't personally agree with it, and I think making the argument that he's better would be really tough, but it's not absurd. What Lebron has done is nothing short of amazing. The expectations for this guy were off the chart as a teenager, and he has single-handedly kept the East from becoming a laughing stock. If Lebron James didn't headline these past few teams in the East, the NBA would be embarrassingly lopsided. Basically, any team he is on is coming out of the East. And there's no way you can convince me that exchanging a 32-year-old Lebron for a 32-year-old Jordan (he was 32 in '96 and Lebron has more miles) would have affected the outcome. I believe Jordan to be the GOAT, but it's nonsense to act like there's no argument.

All-in-all, JORR is primarily wrong, as usual, but he is partially correct on that one facet of the argument.

That's incorrect. I don't think that's the only reason. There's a clear case to be made for Jordan on his merits. What I do think is that fandom causes MANY to stubbornly refuse that it could possibly be anyone else.

There are 50 players better than Pippen. There might be 80 players better than him.

There are 50 players better than Pippen. There might be 80 players better than him.

If you believe that it isn't absurd then make the argument.

Even people outside of Chicago with no connection to the Bulls believe in Jordan as goat orthodoxy. Not just a fandom thing.

That's incorrect. I don't think that's the only reason. There's a clear case to be made for Jordan on his merits. What I do think is that fandom causes MANY to stubbornly refuse that it could possibly be anyone else.

There are 50 players better than Pippen. There might be 80 players better than him.

I've already made it several times. You don't want to hear.

JORR is Tom Brady the most talented QB ever?

No, but he may be the best.

I missed it. I can't argue against Wilt if we're measuring on pure dominance. The Magic argument is ridiculous. Kareem was the best player for a while and by no measurement beyond assists is Magic better than Jordan. The argument for LeBron is talent.

Because he wins. If we looked at pure talent he may not be in the top 50.

Kareem was never the best player on any team Magic was on. And Magic's baskets and assists produced more points than Jordan's baskets and assists and did so more efficiently.

So you think Russell Westbrook is the best player in the league right now, right?