Not unless she was involved in the conspiracy and helped plan the details. If she was simply encouraging him to kill someone and he carried out the act completely on his own, I don't believe she should be charged with a crime.

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I'm more like God. I believe in free will.

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Freedom is our Strength.

It really wasn't that simple. That kid wasn't going to commit suicide. It was clear reading the texts. He correctly thought about all of the reasons he shouldn't do it. Every step of the way she kept pressuring him to do it. I hope they kick the crap out of her in prison.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

This is the flaw in your thinking. IMU has no reason to believe at the time of the statement or now that I am a risk to do so. If me and him had the exact same conversation then he certainly could be in trouble.

Imagine that this woman was instead trying to convince him to kill another human being. If he did it do you think she should get charged with a crime?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That very well may be. It still seems a weird way to go about a conviction like this ... that could also be "off my lawn" eyes looking at it to some degree.

Apparently, Mass law indicates re: Involuntary Manslaughter.

"In order to obtain a conviction of Involuntary Manslaughter, the prosecution must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, the following legal elements:

[*]That the defendant caused an unlawful, while unintentional, killing. In other words, there was no legal justification for the killing (such as self-defense,) and the defendant intended to commit the act or conduct that ultimately caused the death. However, the prosecution does not need to prove that the defendant intended to cause the death that resulted from his conduct;

[*]That the victim’s death was caused by wanton or reckless conduct, meaning that the defendant's actions created a high degree of likelihood that substantial and serious harm would result to another person; and,

[*]The wanton or reckless conduct that the defendant engaged in, in fact caused the victim’s death."

To me, that seems pretty open to interpretation to a degree that I don't know that I care for ... particularly when maybe 20 years in the hoosegow is on the line.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Damnit Bagels, I controlled myself from doing precisely that ...

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Right, but you know how the law works. RICO wasn't meant to be used against protestors but it has been.

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Freedom is our Strength.

probably not. At the very least that is a big assumption.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I'm not sure where loose talk ends and conspiracy begins.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Well, if he was in the same room as the guy claiming he was about to kill him that would probably be a good time to say "Hey, how about you don't kill him?".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

different type of law and duty (yes, I said doodie)

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Understood, but the idea here is that this is just about emotions when in fact it is quite logical that someone encouraging someone else to do something with rock solid knowledge they are about to is worthy of criminal activity.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No it isn't. Suicide really isn't an accident.

I'd say she had a duty to act when she knew he was doing it. That is her only legal guilt.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

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But all these things you believe (most of which I agree with) are just our subjective opinions about a situation or hypothetical situations that set precedent. You think that in this particular situation, she committed a crime. What about a similar situation where she wasn't quite as pushy? What about a situation where she just suggested he do it? I know you can sit there and say those are "different", but that's very subjective. If you can't explain where you draw the line, it's pretty tough to say it's a good scenario to convict someone.

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I read at one point she would get off because MA has made it not illegal to assist suicides. Meant of the terminally ill I assume. Guess not though.

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Elections have consequences.

If she had behaved differently it may have been different.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Honestly, reading the texts, it wasn't so much assisted suicide as it was suggested and forced upon suicide.

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Yeah it was just a possible angle the lawyer could try according to whatever it was I read.

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Elections have consequences.

It was. He kept putting it off and even bringing up his family. She was practically demanding that he kill himself.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

But that doesn't necessarily make it a crime, yaknowimsayin?

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They weren't even in the same place, though. She can demand all she wants... she can't force him to do it. If someone demanded you commit suicide, would you automatically do it?

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He was already mentally fragile...and he was trying to please her...she is a sociopath...if you take all the factors into account in this case, she was the trigger that pushed him past the point of no return.

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If I ride your ass long enough that you decide to drive 75 in a 30 mph zone, who's getting a ticket (or, for that matter, maybe the cuffs too)?

Same scenario ... if in addition to doing 45 over and you hit a bicyclist (hopefully one in full fruity regalia), again, who's getting the ticket, citation, and trip to the clink?

How about we're talking and you say you have money problems and have no way to fix it and don't know whether to shit or go blind, and you end up deciding to be convinced by my apparently compelling argument that robbing a bank is the best possible combo of odds of success and potential amount of your haul and you decide to knock over Fred's Bank, who's getting rung up here?

Same scenario ... if in addition to getting your stereotypical bag with a big dollar sign on it and cartoon lines around it and you kill someone in the process (either voluntarily by, say, killing a guard, or involuntarily, by, say, causing a ruckus that puts Old Lady Tilly into cardiac arrest from the perceived stress), who stands trial?

The answer to all four is you alone, but more importantly for the purposes of this discussion, I'm awfully sure I won't be ... certainly not in any way that suggests I "made" you commit your special crime and am therefore culpable for your choice and the consequences arising from said choice.

I just don't know that I can logically reconcile those against the apparent new equation of texts + suicide = inv manslaughter.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I have no sympathy for this girl because she's insane. However, I do like to argue, and I just can't agree with your reasoning here. You are essentially saying that there is a duty or burden on every individual in society to understand everyone else's mental state and make an accurate assessment as to whether or not they could be suicidal. That's quite a burden. Essentially, if you extrapolate that out to every situation, we are basically saying that it's illegal to say or even suggest to anyone that they kill themselves, joking or not, because they might be mentally fragile.

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While a fair point, as we don't truly understand where some random person on the street, or say message board member on a list of some sort may be, in this particular case, she was this dude's ex girlfriend...I would contend that she has a better idea of his mental state than say McNown has of Chas when they start going round and round. In this case, I find her actions to be a direct push to him killing himself. Shit, when the story broke, some word had gotten out that she was thrilled because she would get some attention as the poor grieving girlfriend. This girl is nuts, but I think she's crazy like a fox...knows full well what she did and why she did it.

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Was this a big story when it happened? I must have missed it if it was.

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I remember coming across it maybe early last year or so...but yeah, it was kind of a thing back when I was reading CNN on a daily basis...so pre-election season last summer.

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