Why not?

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Freedom is our Strength.

Some of the takes are pretty astounding.

"He knew it was a bad idea to go there so I don't feel bad for him."

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Fraternities are not inherent dangerous places.

Which frat do you belong to?

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Freedom is our Strength.

Meanwhile lets go to the food and drink section of this board and survey all the fatties posting about the risks of international travel while killing themselves slowly with steady diets of italian beef and pizza.

Your primary goal here seems to line up with the usual conservative actors who see this as the most horrible story of the day. Top that with your angle that anyone who doesn't agree with your position is all but inhumame. Then hit the trifecta with your fixation on the social justice left that has you criticizing them for inaccurately perceived hypocrisies.

You cited a hysterical writer's piece from Commentary, that pretty much parroted the latest cynical FoxNews theme of the last week and then snidely ask if "we" are going to victim blame with many around here using completely false analogies, which by your silence you seem to embrace.

Face it, this is a made for right wing outrage story. Just sad that a goofy kid who clearly thought he was above it all got mixed up in this mess that many are attempting to profit from.

And that the trumpets are all in line

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

As opposed to all those authentically genuine left wing outrage stories of the poor criminal who assaulted a police officer and got shot.

Yeah, I'd say anyone who doesn't think this is a horrible story is pretty inhumane.

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Freedom is our Strength.

This explains a lot.

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Imaginary posting running rampant in this thread. Everyone agrees that this is horrible, just that like it or not, the notion of going to North Korea is a stupidly risky idea and that you wish this kid and his parents used a bit of common sense before embarking on such a bizarre trip.

I presume his parents kicked in allow him to fund this dumb excursion. I cannot imagine that when the topic of N. Korea came any sane parent would've been anything less than strenuous in pointing out the danger and lunacy in engaging with the North Koreans in N. Korea.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

How many times do you want to keep playing this false analogy card? Did you read the dozen or so posts above that called that intellectual dishonesty for what it is?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Now respond to Ogie's directly on point post about his first hand thoughts on travelling around parts of the Middle East as a member of the tribe...

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It is horrible no doubt. You have to question the kid's rationale for going also. With any risky endeavor you have to ask what's the upside? What is the upside of visiting N. Korea?

I look at people that attempt to climb Mt. Everest the same way actually. Does that make a person inhumane to simply question the sanity of it?

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Except no one has really explained how the analogy is false. Its a choice to go to North Korea to same way its a choice to break the law and be confrontational with armed police.

So should humans just blithely exist for the sole purpose of consuming oxygen and food?

Also, Mt. Everest is a mountain. A large one. We cannot appeal to Mt. Everest's humanity because, as a mountain, Mt. Everest is not human. OTOH North Koreans are human and as such are subject to a few behavioral expectations that Mt. Everest (again, a mountain) is exempted from. We can do something about the way North Korea treats people. We actually did once upon a time but a general lost his marbles and the whole thing had to be called off to avoid WW3.

I will explain how the analogy is false. The American Govt and the police aren't known to be oppressive. When a person becomes involved in a physical conflict with the police the citizen still has Civil Rights which must be adhered to. If a police officer violates those rights they are expected to be punished according to the rule of law. The police aren't above the law theoretically. Citizens are still supposed to have rights. N. Korea is different though. It is an acknowledged violator of human and Civil rights. People that visit are doing so "at their own risks".

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North Korea was not his country.

He had no protections, nor should he have expected such from any state actor in North Korea.

There was no basis for his misguided belief that he should expect his privilege to exist in N. Korea

He didn't fund the state actors to protect and serve him in that country.

Freedoms as many believe them to exist here, quite simply don't there.

He, certainly in light of the State Dept.'s warnings should have expected poor treatment at every turn, and couldn't have expected any court or other actor to provide him with a potential avenue for justice in No. Korea.

Being confrontational with the police isn't supposed to automatically breaking the law in the United States.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It was called off because we didn't want to go to war with China and lose. When you climb Mt. Everest you know the risks. If you don't then you're an idiot. If you succumb because the risks got the better of you it isn't the same as a person that's accidentally killed. The sympathy won't be the same.

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You won't excuse this kid for going to North Korea but you will excuse Carmelo Anthony for staying in New York?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wait, really?


There's international law regarding human rights as well, but North Korea proudly and blatantly ignores it. But because that's expected of North Korea that makes it OK? Why should American police be subject to rule of law but the North Korean government not? This is a country that has a three-generations rule when it comes to acts of "sedition" and treats their own much like they did Warmbier.

You are applying an ethical double standard.

Yes because Carmelo knew what he was getting into and the kid should have also. Kid shouldn't have died for visiting N. Korea but he also shouldn't have visited N. Korea

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In fairness he is/was a married man with an expensive wife who counts their money closely.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

The point is being a human being in North Korea does not have to be such a risk-fraught endeavor. The USA can exert pressure on North Korea to change their behavior whereas Mt. Everest cannot be negotiated with or compelled by force to change its bloodthirsty nature.

I'm not saying that N. Korea should get away with anything. They aren't exempt from blame. Actually most of the blame lies with their Govt. We aren't going to war over their values and until we do its moot to argue over their validity.

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I follow a guy on Flickr who has been there several times. Comes back with hundreds of photos...of course, he stays with his group, but he's been fine.

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Now you're just blathering on about white privilege which inevitably leads down the road to him being a "DUMBASS FRAT BOI" and you actually believing the North Korean story that he stole the poster.

Thousands of westerners have traveled to North Korea and enjoyed (? I dont know if its enjoyable, certainly memorable I guess) themselves safely and without incident. The risk is nowhere near that of climbing Mt. Everest or circumnavigating the world in a sailboat. Before this incident with Warmbier the most dangerous part of visiting North Korea was the ride on an old Soviet plane. Whether or not he actually tried stealing the post nobody really knows, but even if he did that crime does not carry with it the penalty of death-by-torture.

The U.S has applied pressure over the years. Militarily and economically we've tried but to no avail. N. Korea will have to be changed from within. This kid also didn't die because he tried to change the behavior of N. Korea. He died trying to pull a prank allegedly.

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The United States is currently at war with the DPRK, fyi.

And really when you blame this kid for being tortured to death you are saying the Norks should get away with it. If you didn't think they should be allowed to murder people you would blame them for the murdering, not the kid for getting murdered.

All idiots

We are at war with N. Korea currently?

So if they "shouldn't get away with it" then what do you propose that the U.S. Gov't should do?

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