WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Lies, assertions, or otherwise, WFR is far from the most racist person ever here. That kind of hyperbole just makes discourse impossible.
If I can be called a racist in the least then it means that our public discourse has gone insane.
WFR we've discussed this before but I think one hang-up for you is what I view as your sort of dismissal of lived experience. Yes experiences are subjective and mostly not quantifiable but at the same time they create "truths" that aren't always shared by different people. Here is what you're going up against:
Quote:
By large margins, black adults are more likely than whites to say that blacks are treated less fairly than whites across key areas of American life. For example, 64% of black adults say blacks are treated less fairly than whites in the workplace, compared with 22% of whites who say the same – a 42-percentage-point gap. Blacks are also considerably more likely than whites – by margins of at least 20 points – to say that blacks are treated less fairly than whites in dealing with the police, in the courts, when applying for a loan or mortgage, in stores and restaurants and when voting in elections.
Blacks are also more likely than whites to say they have experienced unfair treatment because of their race or ethnicity in the past year. Some 47% of blacks say someone has acted as if they were suspicious of them and 45% say people have acted as if they thought they weren’t smart. About one-in-ten whites report having these types of experiences. Blacks are also more likely than whites to say they have been unfairly stopped by police (18% vs. 3%) and that they have been treated unfairly in hiring, pay or a job promotion (21% vs. 4%) in the last year.
Rather than deny people these feelings I think you should try thinking through why they might be "true" for some as a starting point in the discussions you're trying to have.
People have feelings so we have to respect them no matter on if they are true or not. You believe this is a healthy perspective?
To be clear I am not referring to the episode being discussed in this thread. I am speaking more about your general thoughts on racial tensions. I never said all "feelings" are necessarily true but rather that lived experiences are real things that can reasonably lead to certain feelings. The poll I cited above demonstrates that MANY people have certain feelings that say racial discrimination is a real thing, that they're being judged on the basis of the color of their skin, and so on. Are they all necessarily wrong? Take a look at the results of a different poll (and ignore the political aspect of it since it's not relevant here):
Quote:
Supporters of U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump are more likely to describe African Americans as "criminal," "unintelligent," "lazy" and "violent" than voters who backed some Republican rivals in the primaries or who support Democratic contender Hillary Clinton, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll.
The poll also showed significant numbers of Americans in both the Republican and Democratic parties view blacks more negatively than whites, harbor anxiety about living in diverse neighborhoods and are concerned that affirmative action policies discriminate against whites.
Republicans in the survey expressed these concerns to a greater degree than Democrats, with Trump supporters presenting the most critical views of blacks.
The poll, conducted between March and June, interviewed 16,000 Americans and included 21 questions on attitudes about race. It sought responses from voters who support Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee, and her rival U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders.
It also surveyed supporters of U.S. Senator Ted Cruz and Ohio Governor John Kasich, the last two Republican candidates to drop out of the race.
Nearly half of Trump's supporters described African Americans as more "violent" than whites. The same proportion described African Americans as more "criminal" than whites, while 40 percent described them as more "lazy" than whites.
In smaller, but still significant, numbers, Clinton backers also viewed blacks more critically than whites with regard to certain personality traits. Nearly one-third of Clinton supporters described blacks as more "violent" and "criminal" than whites, and one-quarter described them as more "lazy" than whites.
To be sure, not all Trump supporters expressed negative attitudes about blacks. No more than 50 percent of his supporters rated blacks negatively, relative to whites, on any of the six character traits in the poll.
Yet when their answers to the poll questions were compared with responses from supporters of other candidates, Trump supporters were always more critical of blacks on personality traits, analysis of the results showed.
The trend was consistent in the data, even when the results were filtered to include only white respondents to remove any impact that a different racial mix between Clinton and Trump supporters might play in the poll.
The Trump supporters' views on affirmative action and neighborhood diversity do not necessarily reflect racial bias alone, said Michael Traugott, a polling expert and professor emeritus at the University of Michigan, who is not publicly supporting either Trump or Clinton. Rather, the results could also suggest anxieties about economic insecurity and social standing.
32 percent of Trump supporters placed whites closer to the top level of "intelligence" than they did blacks, compared with 22 percent of Clinton supporters who did the same.
About 40 percent of Trump supporters placed whites higher on the "hardworking" scale than blacks, while 25 percent of Clinton supporters did the same. And 44 percent of Trump supporters placed whites as more "well mannered" than blacks, compared with 30 percent of Clinton supporters.
The online poll, which surveyed people over the age of 18 across the United States, was conducted during two periods in the 2016 election cycle.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZE2SWIf you insist that the feelings African Americans expressed regarding how they're perceived are incorrect (in the earlier poll I posted), then how would you explain the poll results above? Isn't there a basis for African Americans to feel that they're still perceived negatively, despite the relative social progress we've made over the past 100 years or so? Are you as interested as disabusing racists of their views on blacks as you are of disabusing blacks of their feelings on how they're treated and perceived in this country?
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