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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Meanwhile, Cook County and the city of Chicago are arguing over who should produce ID cards for illegals (at taxpayer expense of course).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
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This is just plain stupid, Trump.
You won. Enjoy it. Move along and do something constructive please for the love of god
It really is amazing. It's like a team winning the Super Bowl and then complaining they were screwed by the refs and they want the results to be investigated.


What's amazing to me is that MANY agree and are in lockstep

Not sure if lockstep is quite the right word ....


:wink: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?


That's an unnecessary stretch, but I will play your game. MANY only see corporate citizenship as mattering. Or at least first among (non)equals

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?


That's an unnecessary stretch, but I will play your game. MANY only see corporate citizenship as mattering. Or at least first among (non)equals



It's not a game. I'm trying to get at the right answer. I don't see an issue with resident aliens being allowed to vote in certain local elections. But I do find it disingenuous to be constantly beating a drum regarding the integrity of federal elections with regard to "Russian interference" when said integrity is much more like to be under attack by ineligible voters who are actively sought by one of the major political parties. I'm pretty sure that Jerry Brown signed a bill that automatically registers Californians to vote when they receive their driver's licenses. There are undoubtedly many ineligible voters casting ballots regardless of whether or not a loon like Trump overstates the case.

Anyway, I'm open to the idea of a completely open border and anyone who resides within what used to be the United States having the right to cast a ballot. I'm not sure how that would work out though.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:55 pm 
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Let's not classify everything as fake news though. I'm of the understanding that meddling in the past election is a fact. And it doesn't matter that this country practices meddling either.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:02 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Let's not classify everything as fake news though. I'm of the understanding that meddling in the past election is a fact. And it doesn't matter that this country practices meddling either.



I think what's fake is the hunt for collusion that obviously did not occur (as well as the suggestion that this was the first time a foreign power ever attempted to meddle in a U.S. election). The people who are supplying the narrative want there to have been collusion.

It would be like if we called a poster here a murderer and then spent all of our time trying to prove that he was and when we saw a drop of blood in his house we went insane and started screaming, "BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD!!!!!"

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Let's not classify everything as fake news though. I'm of the understanding that meddling in the past election is a fact. And it doesn't matter that this country practices meddling either.



I think what's fake is the hunt for collusion that obviously did not occur (as well as the suggestion that this was the first time a foreign power ever attempted to meddle in a U.S. election). The people who are supplying the narrative want there to have been collusion.

It would be like if we called a poster here a murderer and then spent all of our time trying to prove that he was and when we saw a drop of blood in his house we went insane and started screaming, "BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD!!!!!"


Let the investigation run its course and we'll see what happens. So far it's uncovered legit stuff (Flynn, Paige or whatever his name was, Trump trying to strong-arm Comey, etc.) Let that happen. The noise from the media doesn't help, but honestly both the investigation and its eventual results need to be respected. Not trying to be hyperbolic but if that can't proceed and be respected, then that takes us backwards.

EDIT: Also, the meddling stuff is serious. And to be fair, it happened under the Obama administration. In terms of sowing domestic discord, Russia is kicking our ass regardless of whether there was collusion or not.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:23 pm 
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can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:26 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


Quote:
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): The president has repeatedly talked about ... Russia's involvement in the U.S. election cycle as "a hoax" and as "fake news." ...
JAMES COMEY: Yes, sir. There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever. The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose. They did it with sophistication. They did it with overwhelming technical efforts. And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government. There is no fuzz on that. It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community, and the members of this committee have seen the intelligence. It's not a close call. That happened. That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that because this is about America, not about any particular party.
HEINRICH: So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country?
COMEY: Yes, sir.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/0 ... ony-239295

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?




You gotta be shitting me, hell no they shouldn't vote.. They shouldn't even be here.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:27 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?




So far, absolutely nothing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:30 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


Quote:
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): The president has repeatedly talked about ... Russia's involvement in the U.S. election cycle as "a hoax" and as "fake news." ...
JAMES COMEY: Yes, sir. There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever. The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose. They did it with sophistication. They did it with overwhelming technical efforts. And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government. There is no fuzz on that. It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community, and the members of this committee have seen the intelligence. It's not a close call. That happened. That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that because this is about America, not about any particular party.
HEINRICH: So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country?
COMEY: Yes, sir.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/0 ... ony-239295


That didn't really answer his question.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


Quote:
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): The president has repeatedly talked about ... Russia's involvement in the U.S. election cycle as "a hoax" and as "fake news." ...
JAMES COMEY: Yes, sir. There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever. The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose. They did it with sophistication. They did it with overwhelming technical efforts. And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government. There is no fuzz on that. It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community, and the members of this committee have seen the intelligence. It's not a close call. That happened. That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that because this is about America, not about any particular party.
HEINRICH: So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country?
COMEY: Yes, sir.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/0 ... ony-239295


That didn't really answer his question.

Explain how it didn't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Trumpet JORR believes that MILLIONS of people who are ineligible to vote are voting for democrats in elections that democrats always lose. These ineligible voters are risking their future in America to vote illegally. They manage to consistently do this without getting caught and without anyone blowing the whistle on this wide spread fraud.

Despite reporting and smoke and President Trump tweeting it JORR doesn't believe Russia interfered in our election. Despite reporting and smoke JORR doesn't believe that General Flynn or others may have colluded with Russia to bring Hillary down.

JORR clearly sees nothing wrong with the president's henchmen receiving our "voter information including names, the last four digits of Social Security numbers, addresses, birth dates, political affiliations, felony convictions and voting histories." If we have nothing to hide we should give it to the Putin administration.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:37 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


Quote:
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): The president has repeatedly talked about ... Russia's involvement in the U.S. election cycle as "a hoax" and as "fake news." ...
JAMES COMEY: Yes, sir. There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever. The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose. They did it with sophistication. They did it with overwhelming technical efforts. And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government. There is no fuzz on that. It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community, and the members of this committee have seen the intelligence. It's not a close call. That happened. That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that because this is about America, not about any particular party.
HEINRICH: So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country?
COMEY: Yes, sir.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/0 ... ony-239295


That didn't really answer his question.

Explain how it didn't.


The question was "what did Russia do to the election?". Your answer was, "yes".

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:38 pm 
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312player wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?




You gotta be shitting me, hell no they shouldn't vote.. They shouldn't even be here.


Inhumane racist.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:44 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


They basically set up phishing expeditions to get access to the DNC and RNC computers. The Dems fell for it and the GOP didn't. The Russians then leaked some of the more embarrassing e-mails, which put the DNC and Hillary in a bad light and cost her votes, allegedly.

That is the gist of the "sophisticated attack."

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:48 pm 
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312player wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?




You gotta be shitting me, hell no they shouldn't vote.. They shouldn't even be here.


Of course. JORR prefers to argue about things no one is advocating for and that isn t a problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Jill Stein should run this.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


They basically set up phishing expeditions to get access to the DNC and RNC computers. The Dems fell for it and the GOP didn't. The Russians then leaked some of the more embarrassing e-mails, which put the DNC and Hillary in a bad light and cost her votes, allegedly.

That is the gist of the "sophisticated attack."


The point is an American election was interfered with, not that a specific party allegedly suffered more than the other. Are you this dismissive of the meddling reports if Clinton won?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:52 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


Quote:
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): The president has repeatedly talked about ... Russia's involvement in the U.S. election cycle as "a hoax" and as "fake news." ...
JAMES COMEY: Yes, sir. There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever. The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose. They did it with sophistication. They did it with overwhelming technical efforts. And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government. There is no fuzz on that. It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community, and the members of this committee have seen the intelligence. It's not a close call. That happened. That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that because this is about America, not about any particular party.
HEINRICH: So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country?
COMEY: Yes, sir.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/0 ... ony-239295


That didn't really answer his question.

Explain how it didn't.


The question was "what did Russia do to the election?". Your answer was, "yes".


:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Nas wrote:
312player wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?




You gotta be shitting me, hell no they shouldn't vote.. They shouldn't even be here.


Of course. JORR prefers to argue about things no one is advocating for and that isn t a problem.



Nas prefers to troll the political topics.

If you're not advocating for illegals to be allowed to vote, why are you so against any attempt to address the issue? Or do you really believe that ZERO illegals vote?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:57 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
can someone educate me (besides Seacrest on the one side and RR on the other) what did Russia do to the election?


Quote:
SEN. MARTIN HEINRICH (D-NM): The president has repeatedly talked about ... Russia's involvement in the U.S. election cycle as "a hoax" and as "fake news." ...
JAMES COMEY: Yes, sir. There should be no fuzz on this whatsoever. The Russians interfered in our election during the 2016 cycle. They did it with purpose. They did it with sophistication. They did it with overwhelming technical efforts. And it was an active measures campaign driven from the top of that government. There is no fuzz on that. It is a high-confidence judgment of the entire intelligence community, and the members of this committee have seen the intelligence. It's not a close call. That happened. That's about as unfake as you can possibly get and is very, very serious, which is why it's so refreshing to see a bipartisan focus on that because this is about America, not about any particular party.
HEINRICH: So that was a hostile act by the Russian government against this country?
COMEY: Yes, sir.


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/0 ... ony-239295


That didn't really answer his question.

Explain how it didn't.


The question was "what did Russia do to the election?". Your answer was, "yes".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
312player wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Should illegals have the right to vote? Is citizenship a concept that has outlived its usefulness?




You gotta be shitting me, hell no they shouldn't vote.. They shouldn't even be here.


Of course. JORR prefers to argue about things no one is advocating for and that isn t a problem.



Nas prefers to troll the political topics.

If you're not advocating for illegals to be allowed to vote, why are you so against any attempt to address the issue? Or do you really believe that ZERO illegals vote?


There have been about 20 convictions in the past 20+ years so clearly that is more than 0 and it's clearly less than the 5 million the president said voted illegally.

I would like what I do inside the voting booth to remain private. I don't want my voting record and other private information to become public and potentially be targeted for decisions that were supposed to be private. Why are you so willing to give this information up? Why aren't you bothered by this request? Is there any request from this president that would bother you?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Nas wrote:
There have been about 20 convictions in the past 20+ years so clearly that is more than 0 and it's clearly less than the 5 million the president said voted illegally.


I have no idea how many it is. Neither does Trump. And neither do you. But I think it defies logic to believe that there have only been twenty ineligible voters who cast ballots in the last 20+ years if that's what you're suggesting.

Nas wrote:
I would like what I do inside the voting booth to remain private. I don't want my voting record and other private information to become public and potentially be targeted for decisions that were supposed to be private. Why are you so willing to give this information up? Why aren't you bothered by this request? Is there any request from this president that would bother you?


Are you making an argument for states' rights? Some level of government obviously already has those records.

I'm bothered by it because I think it's pointless. I'm not sure what the answer is, but ineligible people vote all the time and it can have consequences. There's a possibility that Al Franken got elected by ineligible votes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
There have been about 20 convictions in the past 20+ years so clearly that is more than 0 and it's clearly less than the 5 million the president said voted illegally.


I have no idea how many it is. Neither does Trump. And neither do you. But I think it defies logic to believe that there have only been twenty ineligible voters who cast ballots in the last 20+ years if that's what you're suggesting.

Nas wrote:
I would like what I do inside the voting booth to remain private. I don't want my voting record and other private information to become public and potentially be targeted for decisions that were supposed to be private. Why are you so willing to give this information up? Why aren't you bothered by this request? Is there any request from this president that would bother you?


Are you making an argument for states' rights? Some level of government obviously already has those records.

I'm bothered by it because I think it's pointless. I'm not sure what the answer is, but ineligible people vote all the time and it can have consequences. There's a possibility that Al Franken got elected by ineligible votes.


There's no way votes from illegals can swing elections in this country. This is like ranting and raving against single mothers raking in $10,000/year in welfare benefits they're eligible for while not saying anything about corporate fraud that cripples local and state economies.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:37 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
There's no way votes from illegals can swing elections in this country.



That's just absolutely false. If an ineligible voter can vote he can swing an election.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:38 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
This is like ranting and raving against single mothers raking in $10,000/year in welfare benefits they're eligible for while not saying anything about corporate fraud that cripples local and state economies.


It's nothing like that at all.

Why are you so keen on an investigation into supposed Russian interference but not one into how many ineligible voters may be affecting U.S. elections?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:39 pm 
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I'm pretty sure there is potential for fraud in my local school district elections, where some races have come down to a handful of votes, and hundreds of millions of dollars in taxing/spending can hang in the balance.

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To IkeSouth, bigfan wrote:
Are you stoned or pissed off, or both, when you create these postings?


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