Because of the scale. I happen to favor IDs being mandatory at the polls. And I'm not investigating Trump - our elected officials are.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

I was referring to the presidential election. Still waiting on your response to my earlier post.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

Government officials don't know who you voted for. If they did the data would be getting abused. The president wants it so he can abuse it. In the end all this will do is suppress the vote even more which obviously benefits the president and elected Trumpets.

There have been billions of votes cast in the past 20 years. If only 20 were convicted of voter fraud I don't need to guess how many weren't caught. Just based on that number I know it isn't a problem. The belief that folks only vote illegally for democrats is laughable and a very Trumpian way of viewing things.

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I'm not defending the meddling. I'm more dismayed by the portrayal that this was on the same level as tampering with voting machines, which didn't happen. I don't think what actually happened really changed too many votes. If Russia had been the one to leak the Trump "pussy grab" tapes, I don't think people would be crying foul.

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For me the effectiveness of the meddling is irrelevant. From everything we know it seems that this was more of a disinformation campaign than the more Hollywood-type vote machine tampering thing. Anyway, for me it's irrelevant and what I find more dismaying than the portrayal of it in the national media is the seeming indifference. Not talking to you, but we're getting played and no one gives a shit.

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Just so we can put this tired only 20 cases meme to rest here is The NY Times. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/u ... trump.html

In this assumed quality source I skimmed and saw at least 86 convictions in nearly 200 cases. I'm going back to cutting grass so you guys can keep arguing but stop the 20 bullshit.

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This backs up what I was saying. It doesn't uphold the "illegals voting turned the election toward the dems" narrative. If anything, it undermines it, even as it makes a case for a higher amount of voter fraud.

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If you changed it to 5000 out of billions of votes cast it still would be a really insignificant number. You're a scientist so you out of all people should understand that.

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Why does your logic only work one way?

You constantly criticize the Russia investigation (and I agree on many counts), but you're all in favor of a hunt for illegal voters simply because our schizophrenic president has a hunch? Isn't that hypocritical?

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Why do you want people to vote who aren't eligible to vote?

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It doesn't make it ok to base an argument on 20. One is too many for me. If the principle of the law is not enforced then just make it Jorr's let anyone vote that feels like it. It isn't that hard to agree to laws that are fair to all and enforce them. Just get pols from both sides to stop lying about what it is they want instead of that.

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Have you read the article you posted? It cites many cases outside of illegals voting, including felons voting because they simply didn't know they were ineligible to vote.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

Well that's because you're a Trumpet/Jorrpet. No one with a brain (especially a scientist) would be alarmed by something happening 20 or 86 times out of billions. No one with a brain would believe that a commission was needed. Just based on those numbers this is a law that is probably broken the least in America.

The point of saying 20 times was I knew it was a really insignificant amount. The link below says 31.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... lots-cast/

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/ ... fraud-myth

Given this tiny incident rate for voter impersonation fraud, it is more likely, the report noted, that an American “will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls.”

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He didn't read it and he won't read the links I posted. He just waits for JORR to tell him what to think. It's really embarrassing to see a man do that to himself.

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In a country of 350 million people, 1 instance of voter fraud would be outstanding. #science

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It's 1 too many. We need a "distinguished" commission to collect all voting records so we can prevent it from happening.

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If you're not illegally voting, you have nothing to hide.

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Voting machines cause pregnancy.

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It's possible.

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I think the likelihood of an election turning on the votes of ineligible voters is far greater than than of a foreign power seizing control of our voting booths.

If Nas thinks only 20 or even only 5000 ineligible people voted, I'm not going to argue. Neither of us knows. But I think common sense suggests it's more than either of those numbers. Whether it's ever been enough to make a difference, who knows?

As far as whether ineligible voters would be more likely to go Democrat, it seems likely that they would, but that's immaterial. They simply shouldn't be voting. There's little concern for whether or not they do though. That's because the concern about the "integrity of our voting system" isn't really about that at all. For most people it's simply about "Get Trump".

And hey, if someone says that and feels it's a moral imperative, I'm open to hearing their argument. Thus far I've only heard hyperbolic hysteria from guys like Jonathan Chait and Nas. Most of the complaints come down to "he's doing stuff I don't like". And you and I may not like it. That's fine. But many people who voted for him do like it and he was fairly elected, so barring any high crimes and misdemeanors (something no American should be rooting for) we just have to grit our teeth for four years.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I think I've said more than once that I'm not in favor of Trump's method. But we should do the best we can to make sure ineligible people aren't voting and I don't believe we are doing that. There are problems with a national ID too. I don't have the answer. I'm just not silly enough to think only 20 ineligible voters cast ballots.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Well sort of. As I neither started nor endorsed any commission I feel ok about my opinion. Either enforce the laws you have or change them to the way that a majority of the people find fair and lawful. This is true of many issues. Ignoring or not enforcing laws you have in order to manipulate factors doesn't really help in the long run does it?

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Elections have consequences.

That's roughly the same ratio of global warming deniers in the scientific community, and Mike rolls with it.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Who says they're not being enforced? Clearly they are unless of course you believe 5 million illegal aliens voted for Hillary in 2016.

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Mike I'd just like to know if you have any comment on the article you posted that refutes the beliefs you hold about illegals and voter fraud.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

We don't have to argue because MANY have already investigated and the numbers are insignificant. This has been a voter suppression tactic by republicans before your lord and savior became president.

We can't get people who are eligible to vote to show up but democrats have managed to get millions of illegal aliens to vote in elections they always lose? They've also managed to pull this off year after year and failure after failure without being exposed? How does this make sense in your head? Because President Trump is for it now? Sad!

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The lack of consistency in thought by the Trumpets is frightening and embarrassing.

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The numbers aren't in your favor here, and no one (at least here) says the voting machines were compromised. Look, this isn't Uganda. We have superior controls over the vote tabulation and recording process. There's no way the level of fraud you're implying can occur can actually happen at the national level. No way. Even the article that Mike might have inadvertently posted says as much. When it comes to fraud we've got a bunch of isolated incidents that end up not being all fraudulent in the first place, and it's not just undocumented immigrants voting when they shouldn't. Either way, it's not enough to swing an entire race. You know very well that the commission is a vanity project for Trump since he's butthurt over losing the popular vote.

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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

That's just not true.

https://www.odu.edu/news/2016/12/fake_news#.WV15FlGQyM8

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Freedom is our Strength.

I didn't feel I needed to as that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Regardless, I agree that it likely does not change a national election. I do think it can have local and maybe state effects as was mentioned here as well.

I think as we move forward I do not like the way pols manipulate or selectively enforce the law to suit their needs. So in that line of thought I see no problem cleaning up the laws and enforcing them. Others can argue what those laws should be but pick a lane and enforce. I feel similarly about immigration law.

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Elections have consequences.