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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:19 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How harsh should punishment really be though when it would be perfectly legal to have a "doctor" kill the baby an hour earlier?


?? an hour earlier? Perfectly legal?



Yes. Perfectly legal.


Can you expound? Seriously. What am I missing? This happened in Chicago / United States right? I see you put "doctor" in quotes, but I am not catching the gist of your statement.



It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/



It's surprising that many people don't know that.

I had no idea.

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Jbi11s
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:19 am 
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denisdman wrote:
In most situations I find that left leaning folks tend to be on the "right" side of history when it comes to social issues, currently things like gay marriage. However, I often wondered if on abortion there will be a point in the future where people come to realize that it is truly murder and not a feminist cause.

I am not trying to debate abortion here, but simply wondering how that issue will be viewed in say 200 years.

In 200 years how overpopulated do you think the earth will be?

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:21 am 
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denisdman wrote:
In most situations I find that left leaning folks tend to be on the "right" side of history when it comes to social issues, currently things like gay marriage. However, I often wondered if on abortion there will be a point in the future where people come to realize that it is truly murder and not a feminist cause.

I am not trying to debate abortion here, but simply wondering how that issue will be viewed in say 200 years.

same as always. women have always been aborting babies (well, since there have been towns).

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denisdman
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:21 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
denisdman wrote:
In most situations I find that left leaning folks tend to be on the "right" side of history when it comes to social issues, currently things like gay marriage. However, I often wondered if on abortion there will be a point in the future where people come to realize that it is truly murder and not a feminist cause.

I am not trying to debate abortion here, but simply wondering how that issue will be viewed in say 200 years.

In 200 years how overpopulated do you think the earth will be?


Population will level off. You already see flat to declining populations (immigration aside) in most of the rich world. And it happened within just a few generations.

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denisdman
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:22 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
denisdman wrote:
In most situations I find that left leaning folks tend to be on the "right" side of history when it comes to social issues, currently things like gay marriage. However, I often wondered if on abortion there will be a point in the future where people come to realize that it is truly murder and not a feminist cause.

I am not trying to debate abortion here, but simply wondering how that issue will be viewed in say 200 years.

same as always. women have always been aborting babies (well, since there have been towns).


I am saying as a social norm, how will it be viewed.

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:23 am 
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denisdman wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
denisdman wrote:
In most situations I find that left leaning folks tend to be on the "right" side of history when it comes to social issues, currently things like gay marriage. However, I often wondered if on abortion there will be a point in the future where people come to realize that it is truly murder and not a feminist cause.

I am not trying to debate abortion here, but simply wondering how that issue will be viewed in say 200 years.

same as always. women have always been aborting babies (well, since there have been towns).


I am saying as a social norm, how will it be viewed.

it will still be controversial because there are good (edit) reasons to have abortions.

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Last edited by formerlyknownas on Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:26 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Am I reading that link incorrectly? It says up until viability or 22-24 weeks. That is not up until born.


SAD that MANY are spouting fake news.

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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:27 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How harsh should punishment really be though when it would be perfectly legal to have a "doctor" kill the baby an hour earlier?


?? an hour earlier? Perfectly legal?



Yes. Perfectly legal.


Can you expound? Seriously. What am I missing? This happened in Chicago / United States right? I see you put "doctor" in quotes, but I am not catching the gist of your statement.



It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/



It's surprising that many people don't know that.

It's not true. That's why many people don't know that. It is "viability" which is somewhere between 22 and 24 weeks out of the normal 40 weeks.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:27 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/



It's surprising that many people don't know that.

I had no idea.


Because it isn't true.

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Bagels
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:28 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
walkrman5 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How harsh should punishment really be though when it would be perfectly legal to have a "doctor" kill the baby an hour earlier?


?? an hour earlier? Perfectly legal?



Yes. Perfectly legal.


Can you expound? Seriously. What am I missing? This happened in Chicago / United States right? I see you put "doctor" in quotes, but I am not catching the gist of your statement.



It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/


great. there are plenty i'd like to kill
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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:28 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Am I reading that link incorrectly? It says up until viability or 22-24 weeks. That is not up until born.


SAD that MANY are spouting fake news.


"Viability" is open to the interpretation of the provider. There are basically no limits on abortions in the State of Illinois.

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Douchebag
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:28 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/



It's surprising that many people don't know that.

I had no idea.


Because it isn't true.

Yup.

Seacrest didn't even read the article he posted. Sad.

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:28 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/



It's surprising that many people don't know that.

I had no idea.


Because it isn't true.

Is that the wrong link or something? (What Denis said.)

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rogers park bryan wrote:
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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:29 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/



It's surprising that many people don't know that.

I had no idea.


Because it isn't true.


It is true. There are abortions performed in Illinois after 24 weeks.

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Jbi11s
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:30 am 
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Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image

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Seacrest
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:30 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Seacrest wrote:

It's legal in IL to kill a baby up until they are born.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... te/448098/



It's surprising that many people don't know that.

I had no idea.


Because it isn't true.

Yup.

Seacrest didn't even read the article he posted. Sad.


https://abguide.uchicago.edu/page/legal ... e-illinois

Illinois also has a Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act, but it is not enforceable.

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Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:31 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How harsh should punishment really be though when it would be perfectly legal to have a "doctor" kill the baby an hour earlier?
Does the "doctor" "kill" the baby by tossing it off the hospital roof?

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:31 am 
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that's a big "except"

UofC wrote:
Illinois law prohibits abortions once a fetus is considered viable (which is around 23-24 weeks gestation), except in cases of risks to the life or health of the pregnant person.


https://abguide.uchicago.edu/page/legal ... e-illinois

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:32 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image


Image

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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:33 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image



No, because I'm not wrong:

http://ilbypasscoordinationproject.org/ ... /abortion/

"In Illinois, a pregnant person can decide to end a pregnancy until approximately 24 weeks of pregnancy. After approximately 24 weeks, a person can have an abortion only when there is a medical need."

"Medical need" can be interpreted any way. For example, "My strict Muslim parents are going to beat me and I'm under extreme mental stress" = "medical need".

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Drunk Squirrel
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:33 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
that's a big "except"

UofC wrote:
Illinois law prohibits abortions once a fetus is considered viable (which is around 23-24 weeks gestation), except in cases of risks to the life or health of the pregnant person.


https://abguide.uchicago.edu/page/legal ... e-illinois


Huge exception
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denisdman
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:34 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
that's a big "except"

UofC wrote:
Illinois law prohibits abortions once a fetus is considered viable (which is around 23-24 weeks gestation), except in cases of risks to the life or health of the pregnant person.


https://abguide.uchicago.edu/page/legal ... e-illinois


No use arguing it. We're in the Trump world of twisting anything to prove or disprove anything.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:34 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image



No, because I'm not wrong:

http://ilbypasscoordinationproject.org/ ... /abortion/

"In Illinois, a pregnant person can decide to end a pregnancy until approximately 24 weeks of pregnancy. After approximately 24 weeks, a person can have an abortion only when there is a medical need."

"Medical need" can be interpreted any way. For example, "My strict Muslims parents are going to beat me and I'm under extreme mental stress" = "medical need".


No it can't.

Let's not TRUMP up every fucking thread with nonsense.

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Jbi11s
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:35 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image


Image

Image

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Seacrest
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:36 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image



No, because I'm not wrong:

http://ilbypasscoordinationproject.org/ ... /abortion/

"In Illinois, a pregnant person can decide to end a pregnancy until approximately 24 weeks of pregnancy. After approximately 24 weeks, a person can have an abortion only when there is a medical need."

"Medical need" can be interpreted any way. For example, "My strict Muslims parents are going to beat me and I'm under extreme mental stress" = "medical need".


YES

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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:36 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image



No, because I'm not wrong:

http://ilbypasscoordinationproject.org/ ... /abortion/

"In Illinois, a pregnant person can decide to end a pregnancy until approximately 24 weeks of pregnancy. After approximately 24 weeks, a person can have an abortion only when there is a medical need."

"Medical need" can be interpreted any way. For example, "My strict Muslims parents are going to beat me and I'm under extreme mental stress" = "medical need".


No it can't.

Let's not TRUMP up every fucking thread with nonsense.


It can and it has. Listen, I'm just telling you the facts. If you don't want to know them, that's fine.

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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:38 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Am I reading that link incorrectly? It says up until viability or 22-24 weeks. That is not up until born.


SAD that MANY are spouting fake news.


"Viability" is open to the interpretation of the provider. There are basically no limits on abortions in the State of Illinois.
Viability would not extend to birth unless the baby is not going to survive anyways. The interpretation may allow it up to 24 weeks but even that seems incredibly rare outside of the failed pregnancy.

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:39 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

"Medical need" can be interpreted any way. For example, "My strict Muslim parents are going to beat me and I'm under extreme mental stress" = "medical need".


I could almost--almost--see that happening on a college campus. Almost.

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Douchebag
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:41 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It can and it has. Listen, I'm just telling you the facts. If you don't want to know them, that's fine.

Do you have examples of this?

It. Has. Happened. is not evidence that something is true.

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Terry's Peeps
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:42 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Could it be? Could we be witnessing the first time in board history JoRR admitting he is wrong? I'm excited.

Image



No, because I'm not wrong:

http://ilbypasscoordinationproject.org/ ... /abortion/

"In Illinois, a pregnant person can decide to end a pregnancy until approximately 24 weeks of pregnancy. After approximately 24 weeks, a person can have an abortion only when there is a medical need."

"Medical need" can be interpreted any way. For example, "My strict Muslims parents are going to beat me and I'm under extreme mental stress" = "medical need".


No it can't.

Let's not TRUMP up every fucking thread with nonsense.


It can and it has. Listen, I'm just telling you the facts. If you don't want to know them, that's fine.


No. You're selling me your facts.

If it has happened, provide the link and I will be more than happy to say I'm wrong.

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