MANY bouquets being thrown at Rick Hahn's feet for trading two under-market contracted pitchers and an under-market paid RF to restock a farm system.

I am confused why there is so much faith and exuberance behind Rick Hahn. He couldn't field a winning team with Sale, Quintana and Eaton. What track record does "Geghis" Hahn (as Sox fans have begun to affectionately call him) have that fans feel so confident in a successful rebuild?

The Sox have a fantastic eye in identifying and developing pitching. However, it concerns me that when acquiring position players they've so far obtained raw toolsy players in Moncada and Jiminez.

You can't trust the Sox to develop those types. Though, y'know, a supposed 'polished' guy in Collins is sucking in the minors too. Huh, fucked either way, eh?

Are you just being dense? No matter how much the "stat guys" probably hate it, the Sox probably have the best rated farm system in baseball now. He did it by only trading one true superstar and without a year of "intentional tanking" as this year really hasn't had the effect of a top draft pick that pretty much starts off as a high rated prospect.

At the end of last season, many, and maybe even you, doubted the White Sox even HAD a plan to move forward.

Of course it may not work. As leash points out all the time, the baseball playoffs are pretty random.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think you're wrong on Collins but the rest of this is correct. The accolades being given to him over this is insane. It's like the last four years never happened.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Here's the thing. If this works, you have to credit Kenny for a few things.

The acquisitions of Sale (great draft pick) Quintana (rule 5) and Eaton were all great moves that paved the way for this rebuild.

He's been tanking for 5 years, whether it's intentional or not is irrelevant, in fact, it's more embarrassing if he was trying to win.

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Agreed. Kenny deserves a lot of credit.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It certainly matters. Every move they made in the offseason was designed to compete and there were even very few "white flag" type trades.

This is the first year that they are doing Cubs-like moves of getting rid of players for major prospects to build for the future.

Was it dumb to try and win the last 5 years? In hindsight, of course. MLB basically forces you to do it even if you are the Yankees.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm concerned as to why Hahn is being trusted with the rebuild.

He inherited Sale, Quintana, made a fantastic trade for Eaton and then signed Abreu.

Once the waves and waves of talent begin arriving to the MLB...most fans be ecstatic with a core equal to those four players. So you're right back in the exact position of the past 3-4 years.


I wouldn't place any faith in Hahn. He's a smooth talker with no results.

I find it sad that skeptics who enjoy calling out BS like good dolphin or BRick bend the knee and kiss the ring of Hahn simply because he possesses degrees from Michigan, Harvard and Northwestern.

I expect that behavior from Dan Bernstein but I'm surprised to see the same from MANY on the board.

He has made 3 great trades since the end of last season. He now has the #1 rated farm system in the game(which is a big deal when you look at what happens to most of those teams).

Yeah, maybe he sucks. We'll see.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, I'm still under the impression that trading with Theo means you probably lost the trade.

Theo does seem to be emptying out the farm system for one last run before he moves on though so maybe it will work.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If you notice, Theo doesn't really draft or internationally sign Pitchers. So is it really a loss trading with him?

Up until the Chapman trade, Theo had won virtually all his trades by a significant margin. I don't know as much about if that was true in Boston but a lot of GM's looked stupid with trades with Theo. I believe there was one guy that he gave up in a trade that mattered with the Cubs.

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Yep.

Still don't trust any of them and this will all probably fail miserably.

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I think this is the first year (going back to last offseason) where Hahn has really had full control of the roster and moves to make. The Smaardjzjzja, Melky, LaRoche, Frazier, Ventura, and Robertson moves were all Kenny calls IMO.

I think Hahn deserves the benefit of the doubt, and so far he has done a great job trying to set up this team for the future.

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He was the GM for those moves. His signature was on them. If he's as smart as people like to think he wouldn't be attaching his name and resume to another guy's moves.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I've posted some of this before.

The current 11-20 in the Sox system is better than just about any top 10 they've had in at least the past ten years. For years whoever the first round pick was became the defacto #1 prospect in the system because there was just nobody else, and now the Sox draft Jake Burger who is off to a monster start in the minors and he's still really not close to passing any of the guys currently in the top 10. Alec Hansen and Dane Dunning are probably the two best performing pitchers so far from the 2016 draft and you'd have to be crazy to include either in the Sox top 5. Nicky Delmonico, a guy who is clearly ready for a major league shot at positions the Sox have traditionally been desperate for production at (DH and 3b), is almost completely forgotten. Spencer Adams was once the second or third best prospect in the system and is now living up to that hype (and then some), but he's maybe the 15th or so best prospect the Sox have.

What killed the Sox when they had the Sale/Q/Eaton/Abreu core was that they just could not fill out a rotation, bullpen or outfield without making desperation acquisitions that had low probabilities of success. Never mind the issues at 3b and DH (which continue to this day), two positions that really should not be so difficult to fill for teams that develop any amount of talent internally. For a while the Sox minor leagues basically served as a pitcher-flipping house where guys would come in, get shined up, then shipped off for veteran help wherever the Sox could get it. If a Trayce Thompson or Marcus Semien started surprising people they became instantly appealing as sell high candidates and peddled off. The failures of Hawkins and Mitchell are just the costs of doing business and ultimately understandable, but when they didn't pan out it just crippled the system from the top-down because there was just no depth to speak of.

The Sox have Robertson, Swarzak, Melky and Frazier definitely left to trade. Together they should net a few interesting pieces if not another top 100 prospect. If the Sox elect to trade Avi and/or Kahnle they'll probably be adding another 5 or so names total to the top 30 and maybe another two into the 8-12 range amongst Collins/Burger/Lopez/etc. They will also almost assuredly have their best draft position since 2014 (perhaps better), so you can realistically hope the system will maintain its current talent level or maybe ever get better despite the imminent call-ups of Moncada and Rey Lopez (Giolito probably not long after them) over the next year. So the depth is going to continue to build and build and build.

The key is going to be if the Sox can build a core equal to Sale/Q/Eaton/Abreu out of the top guys they have now. I dont think anyone knows how possible that is, though you can be reasonably certain none of the pitchers they've acquired will be quite what Sale has become. OTOH, I'm fairly convinced out of Robert, Jimenez and Moncada the Sox will find a better position player than Eaton (who couldn't OPS over .800) ever was, and really its not outside the realm of possibility that all three meet or pass that threshold.

So I'm excited, I think the acquisition of a guy like Jimenez when I was really convinced it wouldn't be possible for Quintana changes a lot of things. Never mind also getting Cease. Hahn has assembled in seven months what took the Astros, Cubs, Braves, Royals years of pain to put together.

Even if that is true, he wouldn't be the first sports executive that suddenly started doing good work after 4 years of poor results.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You are correct FF when you say that Hahn was the GM. However I do not think he was really "in charge" when those moves were made. Maybe I'm wrong, but as I said Hahn gets the benefit of the doubt in my book.

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Sure. There's just not a ton of skill involved in trading good players for worse, younger players who might one day be good.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So there wasn't a lot of skill in trading for Adam Eaton, or signing Jose Abreu out of Cuba and Jose Quintana as a minor league free agent?

Considering all the moves surrounding those moves? I'd lean towards it being more on the luck side of the spectrum. The overall body of work is very poor.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You could say this about virtually everything a GM does.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Meantime Kenny Williams the only GM to win a World Series during any poster's lifetime, is constantly bashed. I'm a Sox fan and I hope this works but I'm taken aback by effusive praise for a guy that hasn't demonstrated shit other than he's willing to pull off "big" trades.

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Right. That's why you look at an overall body of work instead of one or two moves. We know Rick Hahn can strip down an underachieving team and get applause from the press in the process, because nowadays GMs are lauded every time they make their team worse. We have no idea if he can build a winning team. So far it looks like he can't. I hope I'm wrong obviously and he's every bit the genius people are pretending he is.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I dont think its a coincidence that those moves panned out while the Samardzija, Dunn, Frazier, Keppinger (etc) moves have not. Patrolling for fixable cast offs from the dumpster (Quintana), trading overvalued major league assets for undervalued minor league players (Reed for Eaton...and to be fair Davidson for Santiago) and selective participation in the international free agent market plus a willingness to outspend other orgs to get those guys (Abreu) are exactly the types of moves that the Sox should always have been making.

The types of moves the Sox are going to be making in the the next three or so years as they start looking to get better instead of worse as soon as Opening Day 2018 are the types of moves Hahn has done well with.

You seem to be creating your own narrative. Hahn has made three undeniably great trades. He is getting credit for that. That is it. So far he is following the same script that MLB basically forces you to do it and by objective measures he has set them up for great success.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I know you're kinda joking, but I feel like that's probably true


He should go to the Cleveland Browns