I'm not creating my own narrative, you're just falling for the one being handed to you. Aside from that, nothing in your reply was really a rebuttal to the post you quoted. We still have no idea if Hahn can build a contending team. Any evidence we have so far suggests he cannot.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Kenny is involved in all of this except drafting. He's not pulling all the strings and doing all the negotiations anymore, but if he wasn't on board with these moves he'd have been gone back in the offseason.

There is definitely a mentality in the Chicago sports media world from Bernstein-types who find it insulting that a house negro like Kenny ever did the job of a pedigreed north shore man like Rick Hahn. Now that the Sox are drawing such effusive praise for these trades the media is happy to pin the failings on Kenny and the successes on Hahn to support that plantation hierarchy.

How do we know he has done well? Until you see them in the majors there is no way to know. By all accounts yes they were good moves nut if they aren't then he has to own them. I hope I don't start reading how his hands were tied or Kenny's still pulling the strings. That seems to be the narrative whenever one of his moves backfires.

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You have no idea he can't. What kind of response was that?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I remember when he was hired guys on the Score were openly promoting Dan Evans for job. The racial implications were expeessed not too subtly either. Murphy even proclaimed that Williams was an Affirmative Action hire. It was only done because Reinsdorf was on the committee for more diversity in baseball. It was a damn insult .

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I have four years of evidence suggesting he cannot. You literally have nothing to suggest he can.

Look, you think he's doing a great job so far and that's fine. But don't act like you can't understand why someone would be very skeptical of this entire rebuild given who's behind it.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The extensions of Sale, Eaton and Quintana were way ahead of their time. The acquisition of Eaton in the first place was a great trade. Signing Abreu to that kind of money was a big risk that proved to be worth it.

When the Sox pick their battles and make moves on their own terms they seem to do much better than when they come begging Billy Beane for a 1-year Jeff Samardzija rental. Hopefully now that the minors will be provided much more talent (from the depth perspective) the Sox will be able to do more of the former and less of the latter.

As I said, many executives struggled for four years before finding the correct way to succeed.

This is why you are creating your own narrative. I said he made three great trades and has done a great job since the end of last season. You seem to have extended that to his entire time as GM. If Hahn retired tomorrow he would be a failed GM.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

There is also three years of evidence from Kenny himself that says that Hahn was not 100% in charge of the the Sox roster.

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And this is why I said you are falling for the narrative being handed to you. You have no idea if the bolded statement is true or total bullshit. Either do I. That's why all this applause being given to him is undeserved. It's not that hard to trade really highly rated players for really highly rated prospects. I'm not sure why you think it's such a great job.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

This is the same shit the Bulls try to pull and it's a shame you are falling for it. Two chiefs in charge and they can just take turns blaming eachother as year after year the team sucks.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You're the quintessential "championships or bust" guy. Don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ring. Now you're sprinkling accolades on a guy that hasn't demonstrated that he can get the team at least to .500

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Very sad.

Maybe Rick Hahn can get rid of Abreu, Robertson, the rest of the bullpen, Rodon, and Avi in the next few weeks. Once he finally has a roster bereft of even one MLB quality player we can give him Executive of the Year!

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

With the amount of talent the Sox now have on the farm and what we can be reasonably certain is coming in the time between now and the 2018 draft it would be more miraculous if they didn't build a strong core of 5 or so elite/elite-ish type players than if they did. Not saying its impossible for them all to flame out, but the amount of disbelief you have to suspend to honestly believe that will happen is equal to the delusion of one who thinks Moncada, Jimenez and Robert are going to finish 1-2-3 in MVP voting in 2020.

You'd have to be less vague for me to either agree or disagree with this. What is a strong core? How good will they be over the next 5-7 years? I feel pretty confident they will not be nearly as good as most here seem to be projecting. I don't think they win a World Series. I doubt they make back to back postseason appearances even. I hope I'm wrong and Rick is right that Hahn turns from a shitty GM into a great GM like apparently many others have done.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The guy that hit gold on that was Schueler. If Hahn can approach that then fine. There is a plan and that's good. I'd rather see them go about this way. That piecemeal shit they have pulling for the past 7 years has been nauseating. Got to see product though.

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Nobody knows. Honestly.

I hope this is just you being bored. The Sox are projected to have the best young talent in the league now. I have some idea that the three trades that caused it are good ones.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Because of the possibility of prospect flame out as well as injury there should be some tempering when you seek a reasonable goal of a modern rebuild effort. Also, the MLB playoffs can be a bitch so a certain number of championships is also rolling the dice.

I would say if a team I followed made a full rebuild effort I would be happy with being competitive and around the playoffs for 5-7 years after. Another way is if after 2018 the Sox were either first or second in their division close to the playoffs for 5-7 years I would think it is acceptable. Sure a low bar but a reasonable one given many factors.

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Elections have consequences.

Yeah, the Cubs "piecemealing" with Heyward, Lester, Zobrist, Fowler, Lackey, and now Quintana has really been a disaster.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

One thing you have to give a lot of credit to Hahn for is he finds the team willing to give up the big prize, and then makes that deal before anyone else can. Of all the prospects traded last offseason not only did the Sox get by the best (Moncada), they also got the next 3 or so best and then a little extra. Unless Archer becomes available I would be shocked if any prospect on the level of Jimenez is moved during this deadline, or even in the next 12 months. And its not like the Sox are the only team selling, they are competing with half the NL and a few AL teams who may have been considering selling. Its no coincidence that now that Quintana netted the Sox one of the five or so best prospects in baseball the Rangers want to move Darvish.

I thought he invited disaster holding onto Quintana and I was totally wrong.

Not really, but thats fine if you don't understand it. If you can't see that Kenny almost always traded away young guys for a veteran piece, and now Hahn is acquiring young talent then I can't help you.

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dont compare this to the Bulls. The Sox got way more than they should've for Eaton and Quintana. They biffed the Sale a little, but even then it wouldn't be too much of a surprise to see Moncada and/or Kopech render that point moot in a couple years.

If of the 12ish (don't know if Roberts counts) and the current Sox prospects, if 6-8 of those players make it to the majors, and if 1-2 of those are elite, they can win the WS within 5ish years. The odds IMO are in the Sox favor.

Don't let me get in the way of your blind optimism. Cheerlead as much as you want. But you might want to drop the "you don't understand it" angle. I understand perfectly what they are doing. I'm just not applauding Hahn before he's done any real work. The rest of you are.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I used the Bulls as a local example and because they share the same asshole owner. But there are examples all over the place across sports. I really despise this current sports climate where GMs and are lauded for stripping down their team and making it terrible before actually doing the real work of building it back up into a contender.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If you want to really go after the Sox for a stupid trade hit them on the idiotic Shields move from a year ago. Tatis Jr. is all over top 100 list as an 18 year old SS and all the Sox got in return was a pitcher who is going to lose them a lot of games then next few months.

Yeah, that looks like a horrible move. But to be clear, I'm not saying any of the past three Sox trades were stupid trades or bad moves. I get the fact that they were probably necessary moves. My only point is that Hahn shouldn't be applauded for any of those moves because his and Kenny's incompetence caused them. His real work starts this winter.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Given everything the Sox have done over the last ~8 months, Hahn deserves kudos. If the Sox continue to suck for the next 4-5 years, he will deserve and likely get a lot of negative press.

There is clearly a different philosophy in the way of doing things now with the Sox front office. Its basically the complete opposite of what Kenny Williams did for the better part of 11 years. Given that and what Kenny himself has publically said, it leads me to believe that Hahn was NOT 100% in charge of the roster regardless of what his title was.

With what you have said in this thread, its pretty clear that you either do not understand that, or you are willfully ignoring things which would make BRick's comments about creating your own agenda correct.

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Agreed, Sox are smart to emulate Cubs blueprint that every Sox fan here mocked for 5 years. The one that culminated with a World Series win.