The White Sox and Hahn are making all the right moves in this rebuild and are setting the White Sox up to be really good for a 5-10 year period, and JORR wants to trade all of that for a shot at one 85-win team that might or might not have won the division?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Kindergarten, probably.

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It's a "wanna be" Cubs rebuild but it's far more reckless. The Cubs didn't trade away a "Chris Sale". They didn't trade away a "Jose Quintana". They traded past prime soon to be FA's like Garza and Dempster. The only thing close to value was Shark and they tried their best on an extension before moving him. They were playing with house money.

For the Sox, all these prospects have to "hit" to justify the means. The risk is enormous.

.077 isn't great but he's hitting. 156 if ya count his at bats with Boston too.

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That's the thing though. The Sox don't have to intentionally tank for 3 straight years for their plan. Theo would have done the exact same thing at the end of last season.

Once again, unless you are arguing that there was a decent chance the 2018 or 1019 White Sox would be World Series champs then the rebuild makes sense based on the way baseball is setup. Even if it ends up being a complete disaster it still doesn't mean it was the wrong attempt.

The ironic thing is that the White Sox were the classic "Go for it every year team" and they were mocked for it on here relentlessly by Cubs fans. Only IMU seems to be logically consistent.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I mean eventually, being "Cuban" is going to be a red flag right? They might not be right in the head, or lazy. Cespedes has been up and down his entire career.

Puig, we thought he was going to be an Hall of Famer his rookie year, now, he's just an average player.

Soler will be out of baseball in two years.

Hahn turned those players into more and better prospects than I thought he could get. Sale was the only one where it seemed like equal "value" (as far as trades are concerned) exchanged hands. The Sox got more for Quintana, Eaton, Robertson/Frazier than I thought they would, and signing Robert was big.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

If a player is under 30 and is under team friendly control for multiple seasons, they can be part of your "rebuild" plan. You don't have to trade them. It's not a black and white template.

The Q trade will probably be good for them. God damn Eloy is good. The Sale trade, I'm afraid will go down in infamy as a lopsided deal in favor of the Red Sox.

Ok, go back to the first day of the offseason last year. You are Rick Hahn. What are your next 3 big moves? One seemed to be Eaton. What are the other two? The goal is to make the White Sox into a legitimate World Series contender by the 2019 season.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're a fan of a team that rebuilt countless times over 108 years without ever winning. It's pretty silly to think that a guy is "making all the right moves" and even if he is, you might not win anyway.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Victor Diaz has an ERA of like 40,000 and Basabe hasn't shown any promise until very recently. Should not have settled for those two instead of Devers.

What is your definition of a legitimate World Series contender?

Mine is a team capable of winning 90-95 games and the division. This isn't the NBA.

I trade Robertson, Frasier,Melky, Eaton, and sign Jason Hammell.

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Ok, what are the 3 moves you make to get them to 90-95 wins and winning the division at the end of last season?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The Japanese and Cubans are always over hyped.

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That's not as easy as just saying it though. Melky is better than MANY outfielders on contending teams and nobody wants to make the jump even though not improving may cost them a World Series. It would have been even harder to trade him in the off-season.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Like I said, I still do the Eaton trade. That was perfect, even if Guillto has lost a bit of luster. Always beware of guys like Eaton that have an incredibly inflated fWAR based on defense.

The other moves are open season on any player not named Sale/Quintana for prospects. The only way Sale is leaving is for young major league talent along with prospects.

I bet as a Sox fan you feel a helluva lot better today with those two in the rotation and a still "very good" farm system, which you could have had. 88-90 wins would not have been out of the question in 2018.

They had to trade three guys to get one good prospect. Who else gets anything?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree.

Certainly winning a couple Cy Young awards should be a minimum.

You should be among the best at your position without much debate for 10-15 years. Otherwise you can end up in the Good Player but not Hall of Fame category.

Two many people in the Hall of Fame. Ivan Rodriguez? Ugh. Tim Raines? For what?

Sale is pretty much a lock for the HOF. Two more seasons like 2017 and he's in. Especially considering this new 'juiced ball" era.

So two more season's like the career best year he is currently having. So he doesn't have his work cut out for him then.

MANY bad thoughts in this thread. MANY Cubs fans in this thread. I do not believe that is a coincidence.

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There are a lot of guys I'd complain about before those two.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's ridiculous. What does he have? 85 wins? If you put Sale in now you better put Don Gullett and Ron Guidry in first.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Nobody is going to give a shit about pitcher wins when the likes of Kershaw, Sale and Scherzer are up for their HOF votes. Forget the debate of how useless the "win" stat is, you have nuances like specialized bullpens, five men rotations, starts skipped, etc. There just are not as many opportunities for pitchers to get the "W" stat.

Sale has to win a couple playoff games, at least. I don't think he's ever been on "the big stage" and his personality has been... volatile. Great competitor, but the HOF talk is a little silly at this point.

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Bob you're off the rocker here. Those other guys you mentioned have a bunch of Cys

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1926-1931-1934-1942-1944-1946-1964-1967-1982-2006-2011

Winning isnt guaranteed. Giving your organization the best chances at winning is how you should be judged.

The Cubs had decades and decades of the wrong people making the wrong moves. I would not have been a fan of the rebuild had Hendry still been there or Zell still owned the team, for example.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Chris Sale has been every bit as good of pitcher as Scherzer the past half decade. Everyone with a functional baseball brain knows that. Kershaw is just on a level above everyone.

They all have giant winning percentages but I'm gonna say no starter with less than 150 wins is getting in the Hall of Fame. There are way too many good ones out there with more who aren't in.

But like I said, the standards will have to be relaxed. They're not going to be relaxed from 300 wins down to 110 though.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don