Clayton Kershaw has a higher WAR total than Sandy Koufax in 400 fewer innings, he would be 35th among HoF pitchers in bWAR total for a career, he would be #1 in career adjusted ERA+.

Sale is just behind Catfish Hunter in terms of WAR despite having thrown fewer than half of Hunter's inning total, would be 54th among all starters in the Hall, and he would be 6th in career adjusted ERA+ (technically 7th, because Kershaw is getting in, too).

Yes. Surely this time JORR will be convinced by these stats.

_________________

Catfish Hunter is a questionable HoF guy. I wouldn't use him as a poster boy. I'm sure you don't consider him better than Joe Horlen.

Do you think that there should simply be a guideline WAR cutoff for HoF induction? We could do away with voters and controversy.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Of course. They're just the most recent. Don Sutton can go. So can Andre Dawson, Ryne Sandberg.

No, because as a counting stat, it is subject to the same, or similar, misuses and abuses as other stat totals. It should be considered in concert with other metrics as part of a larger statistical case being made for Hall induction.

That said, I think there are certain benchmarks that are inherently eyebrow-raising for a game that has been around for more than 100 years, and being Top-50, or Top-30, etc. all-time at your position, in a fairly league-adjusted value statistic is one of them.

A single.

HE IS HEATING UP!

_________________

Opening the Sale HOF debate back up. Been an all star every year he was a starter, top 6 in cy young voting since he was a starter. Last 2 years was top 20 in MVP voting. If he can lock up a cy young this year, he is in the hall of fame if he were to die in a car accident.

I don't agree with your last sentence at all but I agree that he is easily on track to be a HOFer. This could easily be one of the worst trades in baseball history if Moncada and Kopech don't pan out.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If not this year, you would have to admit he isn't far off. Seeing him garner MVP votes the last 2 years was a bit shocking to me.

I think he needs at least five more good to great years to get in. Baseball HOF still has standards unlike the NBA and NFL. I don't want to see them ruin that by considering anyone who's had a good five year stretch.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It can only be the 3rd worst baseball trade in Chicago.

It almost certainly will not be worse than Brock for Broglio or Bell for Sosa.

_________________

If everyone the Sox got backs turns out to be a bust, it's as bad or worse than either of those.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

5 more years seems a bit much considering what he has already done. I'm only seeing 1 active starter with 6 consecutive all star games (kershaw).

Also with my qualification of death, I assume there is some projection in there. If his arm falls off tomorrow and he becomes bad, that would tarnish what he has already done.

He gets in like Drazen Petrovic if that happens.


probably a tractor accident or meth explosion though

This is only a debate for now. Three years from now when he's coming off 3 straight Cys it'll be a no brainer

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul