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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:12 pm 
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My appetite for Hillary is on the same level as Bill's was 20 years ago

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
The Dems have a built in advantage in the states that were formerly known as the blue wall. You just had to give lip service to the blue collar middle class there (USW and UAW workers especially) and you win with those states with 5% margins on a bad day. Hillary ceded those voters and ignored them whereas Trump was pitching directly to them. Granted, his pitch on tariffs is bullshit and would harm Americans, but the union members didn't care. Sure the union leadership told them vote blue, but the members ignored them this time around.

If Hillary so much as gave paltry attention to that base, she wins this election and carries WI, PA, and MI.


Hillary is not known for giving time to those she feels are beneath her.


That's it. She couldn't hide her disdain for the working man.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Will she mention the cartoon frog hate symbol? Will she refer to Pepe by name? Inquiring minds want to know!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:37 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

Bill did and I think it showed in his 1992 election. He won on "it's the economy, stupid"

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:18 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

Bill did and I think it showed in his 1992 election. He won on "it's the economy, stupid"

that was middle-class fear. speaking to the suburbanites.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:27 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

Bill understood the working class enough to get their votes before letting them down. Park Ridge Hillary just went straight to contempt.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

Bill understood the working class enough to get their votes before letting them down. Park Ridge Hillary just went straight to contempt.

Wasn't Bill arguing they should spend some time in rural PA but Mook's magic computer told him not to?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:15 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

I don't know. They both fetishized the shit out of those darky convicts working in the mansion when Bubba was guv.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:44 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

Bill understood the working class enough to get their votes before letting them down. Park Ridge Hillary just went straight to contempt.

Wasn't Bill arguing they should spend some time in rural PA but Mook's magic computer told him not to?

Yeah, Bill was one of the only people in that campaign who did know what to do. A lot of people turned on him after the stuff he said about Obama in 2008 but he was probably a voice of reason in that doomed campaign too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:24 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Neither Clinton ever understood (or addressed) the working-class.

Bill understood the working class enough to get their votes before letting them down. Park Ridge Hillary just went straight to contempt.

Yes--that's more accurate.

Many Reagan Democrats were already gone, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:05 am 
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HRC did not have a great message, but what still boggles my mind and causes me to have 'I can't believe Trump is President' relapses on a regular basis is what Trump's message was. Also, HRC did do really well in the debates. Certainly not saying that where HRC campaigned was not a huge part of the loss, but I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -

This is what I took away from the campaign on Trump policy -

Immigration - Build big beautiful wall
Foreign policy - Russia good, EU bad, China and Mexico laughing at us (Trump did fix our China issues with great chocolate cake, so have to give him that ) & of course why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them
Inner cities - Blacks killing each other
Healthcare - Really great healthcare on Day 1 - it is easy folks

HRC as bad a candidate as she was had much better ideas, however, they were not catchy and did not fit into 140 characters. What I have learned is that showmanship matters. Obama is a once in a generation mix of brains and delivery, but it is obvious that we need to find someone more along those lines.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:14 am 
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ConnecticutRB wrote:
HRC did not have a great message, but what still boggles my mind and causes me to have 'I can't believe Trump is President' relapses on a regular basis is what Trump's message was. Also, HRC did do really well in the debates. Certainly not saying that where HRC campaigned was not a huge part of the loss, but I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -

This is what I took away from the campaign on Trump policy -

Immigration - Build big beautiful wall
Foreign policy - Russia good, EU bad, China and Mexico laughing at us (Trump did fix our China issues with great chocolate cake, so have to give him that ) & of course why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them
Inner cities - Blacks killing each other
Healthcare - Really great healthcare on Day 1 - it is easy folks

HRC as bad a candidate as she was had much better ideas, however, they were not catchy and did not fit into 140 characters. What I have learned is that showmanship matters. Obama is a once in a generation mix of brains and delivery, but it is obvious that we need to find someone more along those lines.


Can't agree more. The funny thing about the "Hillary is a terrible candidate and person" critique is that Trump is far worse. In terms of being equipped to run govt there is no comparison. Trump is a buffoon that told the world he was a buffoon and this country still voted for him. He didn't have any ideas on how to improve anything. The whole she didn't have a message thing was suspect too. She had ideas but she did a terrible job of articulating them. She is a terrible frontrunner. She murdered him in the first debate but tried to play prevent defense in the other two.

Regardless of who she is or isn't there should be no doubt that she'd make a better President than Trump.


When is Trump going to get around to eradicating NAFTA. After all it is a "disaster".

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:19 am 
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ConnecticutRB wrote:
HRC did not have a great message, but what still boggles my mind and causes me to have 'I can't believe Trump is President' relapses on a regular basis is what Trump's message was. Also, HRC did do really well in the debates. Certainly not saying that where HRC campaigned was not a huge part of the loss, but I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -

This is what I took away from the campaign on Trump policy -

Immigration - Build big beautiful wall
Foreign policy - Russia good, EU bad, China and Mexico laughing at us (Trump did fix our China issues with great chocolate cake, so have to give him that ) & of course why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them
Inner cities - Blacks killing each other
Healthcare - Really great healthcare on Day 1 - it is easy folks

HRC as bad a candidate as she was had much better ideas, however, they were not catchy and did not fit into 140 characters. What I have learned is that showmanship matters. Obama is a once in a generation mix of brains and delivery, but it is obvious that we need to find someone more along those lines.
The big one was jobs and renegotiating or canceling trade deals that sent or were sending them overseas. That was a strong message even if all but impossible to deliver on.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:24 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
ConnecticutRB wrote:
HRC did not have a great message, but what still boggles my mind and causes me to have 'I can't believe Trump is President' relapses on a regular basis is what Trump's message was. Also, HRC did do really well in the debates. Certainly not saying that where HRC campaigned was not a huge part of the loss, but I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -

This is what I took away from the campaign on Trump policy -

Immigration - Build big beautiful wall
Foreign policy - Russia good, EU bad, China and Mexico laughing at us (Trump did fix our China issues with great chocolate cake, so have to give him that ) & of course why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them
Inner cities - Blacks killing each other
Healthcare - Really great healthcare on Day 1 - it is easy folks

HRC as bad a candidate as she was had much better ideas, however, they were not catchy and did not fit into 140 characters. What I have learned is that showmanship matters. Obama is a once in a generation mix of brains and delivery, but it is obvious that we need to find someone more along those lines.
The big one was jobs and renegotiating or canceling trade deals that sent or were sending them overseas. That was a strong message even if all but impossible to deliver on.


I really don't understand why politicians both Democrats and Republicans, dont do a better job of articulating this. NAFTA is here to stay and free trade isn't the boogeyman that everyone says that it is. It has been a net plus. Obama once upon time bashed the hell out of it and promised to end it also. That was until he got elected and consequently never mentioned it again.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:26 am 
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long time guy wrote:
I really don't understand why politicians both Democrats and Republicans, dont do a better job of articulating this. NAFTA is here to stay and free trade isn't the boogeyman that everyone says that it is. It has been a net plus. Obama once upon time bashed the hell out of it and promised to end it also. That was until he got elected and consequently never mentioned it again.
People who lost jobs or may lose jobs to foreign workers don't care. "You lost your job but it was a net plus" is a non-starter.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:46 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
ConnecticutRB wrote:
HRC did not have a great message, but what still boggles my mind and causes me to have 'I can't believe Trump is President' relapses on a regular basis is what Trump's message was. Also, HRC did do really well in the debates. Certainly not saying that where HRC campaigned was not a huge part of the loss, but I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -

This is what I took away from the campaign on Trump policy -

Immigration - Build big beautiful wall
Foreign policy - Russia good, EU bad, China and Mexico laughing at us (Trump did fix our China issues with great chocolate cake, so have to give him that ) & of course why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them
Inner cities - Blacks killing each other
Healthcare - Really great healthcare on Day 1 - it is easy folks

HRC as bad a candidate as she was had much better ideas, however, they were not catchy and did not fit into 140 characters. What I have learned is that showmanship matters. Obama is a once in a generation mix of brains and delivery, but it is obvious that we need to find someone more along those lines.
The big one was jobs and renegotiating or canceling trade deals that sent or were sending them overseas. That was a strong message even if all but impossible to deliver on.


I really don't understand why politicians both Democrats and Republicans, dont do a better job of articulating this. NAFTA is here to stay and free trade isn't the boogeyman that everyone says that it is. It has been a net plus. Obama once upon time bashed the hell out of it and promised to end it also. That was until he got elected and consequently never mentioned it again.

For whom? Between free trade and automation, I don't see too many net pluses, or, for that matter, too many nets.

What was that they said in the 90s? "The economy will re-train its workers." It didn't happen. Besides, even if it did, once you're 40, you're fucked.

ETA: And no, I'm not saying the answer is Trump (despite the hot wife).

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am 
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long time guy wrote:
I really don't understand why politicians both Democrats and Republicans, dont do a better job of articulating this. NAFTA is here to stay and free trade isn't the boogeyman that everyone says that it is. It has been a net plus. Obama once upon time bashed the hell out of it and promised to end it also. That was until he got elected and consequently never mentioned it again.

you're wrong. You're just wrong, and it's frustrating that you don't work in particular industries to understand it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:59 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
ConnecticutRB wrote:
HRC did not have a great message, but what still boggles my mind and causes me to have 'I can't believe Trump is President' relapses on a regular basis is what Trump's message was. Also, HRC did do really well in the debates. Certainly not saying that where HRC campaigned was not a huge part of the loss, but I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -

This is what I took away from the campaign on Trump policy -

Immigration - Build big beautiful wall
Foreign policy - Russia good, EU bad, China and Mexico laughing at us (Trump did fix our China issues with great chocolate cake, so have to give him that ) & of course why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them
Inner cities - Blacks killing each other
Healthcare - Really great healthcare on Day 1 - it is easy folks

HRC as bad a candidate as she was had much better ideas, however, they were not catchy and did not fit into 140 characters. What I have learned is that showmanship matters. Obama is a once in a generation mix of brains and delivery, but it is obvious that we need to find someone more along those lines.
The big one was jobs and renegotiating or canceling trade deals that sent or were sending them overseas. That was a strong message even if all but impossible to deliver on.


I really don't understand why politicians both Democrats and Republicans, dont do a better job of articulating this. NAFTA is here to stay and free trade isn't the boogeyman that everyone says that it is. It has been a net plus. Obama once upon time bashed the hell out of it and promised to end it also. That was until he got elected and consequently never mentioned it again.

For whom? Between free trade and automation, I don't see too many net pluses, or, for that matter, too many nets.

What was that they said in the 90s? "The economy will re-train its workers." It didn't happen. Besides, even if it did, once you're 40, you're fucked.

ETA: And no, I'm not saying the answer is Trump (despite the hot wife).


You're including automation in there something which predates the arrival of NAFTA. Automation has been much more impactful. We want our cheap consumer goods and NAFTA has helped provide that for us.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Did LTG create a Connecticut multi to talk with? :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:10 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
You're including automation in there something which predates the arrival of NAFTA. Automation has been much more impactful. We want our cheap consumer goods and NAFTA has helped provide that for us.


it's not just manufacturing in an automation sense. It's also pretreatment and post treatments, like powder coating, plating etc.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:16 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
ConnecticutRB wrote:
HRC did not have a great message, but what still boggles my mind and causes me to have 'I can't believe Trump is President' relapses on a regular basis is what Trump's message was. Also, HRC did do really well in the debates. Certainly not saying that where HRC campaigned was not a huge part of the loss, but I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -

This is what I took away from the campaign on Trump policy -

Immigration - Build big beautiful wall
Foreign policy - Russia good, EU bad, China and Mexico laughing at us (Trump did fix our China issues with great chocolate cake, so have to give him that ) & of course why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them
Inner cities - Blacks killing each other
Healthcare - Really great healthcare on Day 1 - it is easy folks

HRC as bad a candidate as she was had much better ideas, however, they were not catchy and did not fit into 140 characters. What I have learned is that showmanship matters. Obama is a once in a generation mix of brains and delivery, but it is obvious that we need to find someone more along those lines.


Can't agree more. The funny thing about the "Hillary is a terrible candidate and person" critique is that Trump is far worse. In terms of being equipped to run govt there is no comparison. Trump is a buffoon that told the world he was a buffoon and this country still voted for him. He didn't have any ideas on how to improve anything. The whole she didn't have a message thing was suspect too. She had ideas but she did a terrible job of articulating them. She is a terrible frontrunner. She murdered him in the first debate but tried to play prevent defense in the other two.

Regardless of who she is or isn't there should be no doubt that she'd make a better President than Trump.


When is Trump going to get around to eradicating NAFTA. After all it is a "disaster".


Completely agree with you too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:18 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I really don't understand why politicians both Democrats and Republicans, dont do a better job of articulating this. NAFTA is here to stay and free trade isn't the boogeyman that everyone says that it is. It has been a net plus. Obama once upon time bashed the hell out of it and promised to end it also. That was until he got elected and consequently never mentioned it again.

you're wrong. You're just wrong, and it's frustrating that you don't work in particular industries to understand it.



There have been plenty of studies conducted which address this particular issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:19 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Did LTG create a Connecticut multi to talk with? :lol:



Only a mult would agree with me on this.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:24 pm 
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ConnecticutRB wrote:
I also believe that racism, misogyny, and Russia were in play -


Russia's impact was insignificant. Those whining about foreign interference should look no further than Obama's weighing in on the Brexit issue. He literally told the UK they would "go to the back of the queue" for any trade deals if they voted for Brexit.

ConnecticutRB wrote:
why do we have nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them


I had no problems with that quote..it's just basic game theory. I don't think he has any intentions of using them, but for countries like North Korea, you want them to think you would under certain conditions.

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Last edited by Jaw Breaker on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Russia's impact was insignificant. Those whining about foreign interference should look no further than Obama's weighing in on the Brexit issue. He literally told the UK they would "go to the back of the queue" for any trade deals if they voted for Brexit.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I did not like Hillary, but considered Trump much worse. I decided I would never vote for Trump. I tried to get even one reason not having to do with Trump in order to vote for Hillary. I could not find a single one.


I think MANY faced this same dilemma. Some chose Hillary as the lesser of 2 evils and some chose Trump.
This book should be laughable. Similar to Al Gore, this election was a layup for Hillary and she blew it. I'm ready for her to away.

Shattered looks like an interesting read. I have no interest in reading a book of her own words making excuses for a terrible campaign.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:27 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Can't agree more.


Well I hope you would agreee with the mult you created.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:27 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Did LTG create a Connecticut multi to talk with? :lol:


Shit I didn't see this.

:lol: :lol:

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