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Humble brag.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

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It's weird there are still so many debates about him. Most Sox fans are happy he's gone and most Cub fans are happy to have him. Win/win

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Im not sold on him. He hasnt looked great the last two outings.

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Welcome to the Quintana Experience

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I would just pin it on the fact that hes not a great pitcher, not that he lacks some sort of #TWTW.

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I dunno. I think you gotta pick a side here. Outside of W/L he is a great pitcher. Some of us just value W/L more than others do

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ill have a stronger opinion on him after a half-year with the Cubs. Just watching him pitch is a more valuable way to evaluate than any stats.

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Yup.

Stats can convince you that Jeff Samardzija is a good pitcher.

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Thank you for your input.

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A useless stat has convinced you he's not a good pitcher.

He's a bum, his 9 years of service shows you all ya need to know.

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.429 career win % and a 4.06 career ERA in the dreadful NL says he is not a good pitcher.

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The compulsion to play amateur GM coupled with easy availability of stats on the Internet has caused an entire generation of fans to lose sight of the object of the game.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I'll ask this question again, because it seemingly got lost (or the baseball deadheads in this thread finally realized how silly they sound): If not for a difference in run support, what accounts for the disparate win conversion rates of Chris Sale and Jose Quintana when they both give up the same amount of runs in a start?

Here are the distributions of their actual run differentials (Runs Support - Runs Allowed) in every game either pitcher gave up 1 run or fewer:




Quintana was twice as likely as Sale to get a hard-luck ND when allowing 1 run or fewer (again, this is run differential, so "0" means the teams were tied when the pitcher left the game), on top of being more likely to get a loss when allowing 1 or fewer runs.

I fail to see how these facts place the onus of Quintana's record squarely on him as a pitcher, and not on the offense behind him in games where he pitched very similar to someone who is already a fringe HOF candidate.

Do you see Q as a staff ace?

Juice seems to be suggesting that over 150+ starts the White Sox were magically inferior offensively when Quintana took the mound as opposed to Sale, rather than considering whether other factors might be at play.

Which is really just a different way of making the McCarveresque statement that the team that scores more wins.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Do you refute the 3.43 RS/Start figure for Sale and the 2.76 figure for Quintana? I'd like to see your evidence that such was not the case. Do you further dispute the actual distribution of each respective pitcher's run support broken down by individual game, in which Sale was nearly 10% more likely to get 3+ runs of support, and more than 12% more likely to get 4+ runs of support than Quintana? Do you have different data?

We're not talking about the "fraction of a run" bullshit you like to hide behind. Sale got more whole, real, runs than Quintana way more often than not. I would like to see you substantively refute this other than retreating to your "the game exists only within the confines of itself" obfuscating.

I understand the facts. Are you saying the Sox hated Quintana and scored less for him or are you open to the possibility that the same factors thst resulted in the Sox scoring less also affected the amount of runs allowed by Quintana?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Completely agree with JLN

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

There IS a difference, that's all I'm interested in at this point, because I have also demonstrated that a difference in run support predicts a difference in W%. Why the team scored way less often when Quintana was on the mound is largely irrelevant. The fact is they did, and that lack of scoring leads to a bad showing in a bad statistic.

You agree that Quintana is cursed but try to couch it as "science". At least you don't post graphs.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

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Ultimately, I don't care about the "why" either. Whether he's a flawed pitcher or a remarkably unlucky guy, I don't want him on my team.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

_________________

Is your counter-argument to the premise that "Jose Quintana received run support from his team not even commensurate with that of Chris Sale, even when the two pitched similar games" really so silly as "Well, that would have to be some kind of curse or something, so I'm going to ignore all those things that actually happened because of my personal incredulity"?

Ok, JORR, you're right, all those games didn't actually occur within the confines and contexts of themselves. What really happened to explain the differences in run support we saw?

When the Sox needed 6 innings out of Q he'd go 5, when they needed 7, he'd go 6. His line usually looked good, but I never thought he came close to impacting a game the way statheads say he does.

Right. It's that simple. This endless debate is nuts.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul