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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:

Various and seemingly contradictory reasons. I love looking at photos or films or tv shows from the 60s and 70s. Virtually everyone is thin. Effortlessly thin. The funniest ad I have ever seen came from a 1970 (I think) National Geographic. It was an ad for sugar. It said, basically, "Look, how many fat kids do you really see running around?" Wish I could find that ad again.


The thing is, Coke is the same 140 calories it was back then. Twinkies and Oreos were popular. You are right about our sedentary lifestyles though.


I used to have that thought about crappy foods I ate as a kid. But, those foods are usually not made with the same ingredients today as they used to be. There are a lot more chemicals and crap in them in order to make them more cheaply.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Killer V wrote:
There are a lot more chemicals and crap in them in order to make them more cheaply.

:roll:

Literally everything is made of chemicals. Unless you dine on anti matter.

Do you mean artificial ingredients?

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:18 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Killer V wrote:
There are a lot more chemicals and crap in them in order to make them more cheaply.

Unless you dine on anti matter.



I've never ate there..I bet Joe Orr has though...


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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Killer V wrote:
There are a lot more chemicals and crap in them in order to make them more cheaply.

Unless you dine on anti matter.



I've never ate there..I bet Joe Orr has though...


Joe Orr is a herald of Galactus. He knows all of the good eats in the cosmos.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:23 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Killer V wrote:
There are a lot more chemicals and crap in them in order to make them more cheaply.

:roll:

Literally everything is made of chemicals. Unless you dine on anti matter.

Do you mean artificial ingredients?


Image

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:23 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Killer V wrote:
There are a lot more chemicals and crap in them in order to make them more cheaply.

Unless you dine on anti matter.



I've never ate there..I bet Joe Orr has though...


Joe Orr is a herald of Galactus. He knows all of the good eats in the cosmos.



You're getting me mixed up with Joe Orr Road Radd.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:48 pm 
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There was a substantial increase in my premium last year. This affordable health care is costing me a fortune.

Obamacare rates in Illinois could soar up to 43 percent next year

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... story.html

Insurers want to raise health insurance prices by as much as 43 percent next year for Illinois consumers who buy coverage through the Obamacare exchange, according to proposed rates released Tuesday.

Most people in Illinois get coverage through employers or government programs such as Medicaid and Medicare. But this year more than 350,000 Illinois residents enrolled in exchange plans.

All three of the insurers that offered plans on the exchange in Cook County this year are proposing increases for next year. Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Illinois, for example, is proposing an average 38.2 percent increase in the cost of its BlueCare Direct plans, an average 14.5 percent increase in its Blue Precision plans, an average 9.3 percent increase in its Blue FocusCare plans and an average 5.4 percent increase in its Blue Choice Preferred plans.

It in its filing the insurer cited, among other issues, increasing medical and prescription drug costs. This year, Blue Cross was the only insurer to offer PPO plans on the exchange and offered coverage statewide.

Cigna, which also offered plans in Cook County this year, is proposing an average 37.7 percent increase, citing the increasing cost of medical care and pharmacy services and supplies.

Cigna also based its proposed increase on the assumption that the Trump administration would not continue paying subsidies to insurers meant to help offset the expenses of reducing deductible and copayment costs for lower-income members. Over the weekend, President Donald Trump tweeted, "If a new HealthCare bill is not approved quickly, BAILOUTS for Insurance Companies … will end very soon."

Celtic Insurance Co., which offered plans in Cook County this year, is proposing increases of more than 15 percent next year.

The proposed rates released Tuesday are preliminary and still could be changed by insurers in coming days. They also don't take into account tax credits many individuals get to offset the costs of their premiums.

Illinois is what's known as a "file and use" state, meaning the state doesn't have the power to change or reject insurers' proposed rates, though it can negotiate in hopes of persuading insurers to come down.


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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:05 pm 
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http://tinyletter.com/error/letters/som ... ngle-payer

Most pertinent, I feel:
Quote:
3) Only a federal single-payer bears the costs of providing care, and the costs of not providing care. Align our incentives appropriately!

Right now, your private insurer only bears the costs of you receiving care. Because you are likely to change insurers in the future, and eventually go on Medicare, they don't actually feel the pressure to provide you care that keeps you healthy in the distant (and near) future. Instead, we all do — we all suffer when our friends and family get sick; our public money is allocated to care for people when they get sick.

So it makes perfect sense that the same actor who suffers when people don't get preventative care — all of us, united, represented by our federal government — should be the actor who also pays for that care in the first place.


It's important to think about the costs our country bears by having such a sick population. Addressing it up front feels like a sound investment to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:06 pm 
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It was designed to push out private insurance. Working as intended. The best part is we are all paying for a deficient Medicaid system, which will become the default "insurance plan" over time.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:16 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
It was designed to push out private insurance. Working as intended.

Good, they won't be missed.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:22 pm 
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More Tim Faust, I love this guy:

Quote:
Back in the 70s and 80s there was an experiment called the Rand Health Insurance Experiment. This was back in a mythical, legendary time I wasn't alive for, before we had things like copays and coinsurance and deductibles, which are what the experiment wanted to test. What happens if you make folks pay for more of their own healthcare? I don't really make Powerpoints so I’ll spare you the charts and get into the middle of it.

Turns out, people who can already afford healthcare aren't that affected by needing to pay [a little bit] to somebody to get their healthcare. That makes sense. But people who can't afford to pay these costs don't seek care. I don't mean emergency care; if you get hit by a truck or you get cancer or whatever you're still going to go to the hospital; you're still going to go to the emergency room. No, no, I mean people who can't afford to pay for healthcare who are then forced to pay for healthcare don’t get primary care. They don't get preventative care. Because we demand they bear the burden of expensive healthcare costs they turn their bodies into ticking time bombs until they have a heart attack at their jobs. Consumer-driven healthcare only benefits the people who seek to profit from our bodies.

But there’s a happy opposite, and it's real, and it's attainable. Everyone benefits when accessing care is affordable and easy. Delivering care--being a doctor, being a nurse, comforting the afflicted, diagnosing, treating--that's all complicated. Paying for healthcare; that's really simple.

A lot of this hinges on the idea of the “universal risk pool.” That sounds kind of wonky but it's pretty simple; I'll run you through it.

A risk pool is how many people pool their resources together in order to pay for the healthcare costs of other people in the pool.
Because most people are healthy, the larger the pool, the easier it is to weather the cost of someone getting very sick or needing a lot of care, right? If one person gets, you know, needs healthcare in the given course of a year, it's a lot easier to pay for it when you've got 300 million people sharing the cost than if you've got a thousand people sharing the cost.

Insurers are examples of risk pools, but they’re small and they're fragmented. One hospitalization, one really weird accident, one premature birth, can drive costs up for everybody--which is why your premiums go up 30% year over year. The largest risk pool of all is the universal risk pool — the federal single-payer.

So let’s build it. Maybe we extend federal programs that already exist. Maybe a little thing called ‘Medicare for All’.

Because once you have a universal risk pool and a federal single-payer you can use it to do a lot of pretty cool things. Let's go through those.

One, you can drive down costs. Almost all medical costs in America are set as a function of Medicare. If Medicare has a larger, healthier risk pool, its overall per-person costs go down, right? And therefore it has the leverage to compel providers to offer fair prices for care. And as a federal entity using public funds, it’s not going to siphon fifteen percent of its revenue away as profit—like a private insurer.

Two, federal single-payer lets us disentangle employment from healthcare. That's right! What kind of job you got, or who your employer is, or whether your boss is cool or if your boss sucks should not dictate whether you are eligible to receive healthcare. It cruel that the poorest among us are coerced into remaining in unsafe or unjust working environments from fear of losing healthcare; it is crueler still that the healthcare of their children is shackled to the quality of their parents’ employer. That is not the America I demand to live in.

Three, because the federal single-payer; the federal actor bears costs of providing care--paying doctors, paying nurses, home health aides, etcetera--and bears the costs of not providing care--the hellworld where everyone gets sick and dies at the same time--it can finally be a tool for realizing actual health justice. Medicare for All is the starting point. It is not the goal.

If your population is sick and they are dying because they don’t have a place to live, then housing is healthcare, and you build housing to bring healthcare costs down.

If your population is sick because they don't have access to healthy food to eat, that doesn't cost seven bucks for a carrot or whatever, then food is healthcare, and you provide them with affordable food options to bring food costs down.

This is the actual work of health justice, and this better world can be ours!

There is solidarity in the moral community of universal healthcare. It gives my life meaning to help others, and it it is my honor and privilege to assist in the care of people around me, even if it’s just through my taxes. Those who say that, "I don't know why I should pay for someone else's pregnancy" have no moral ambition and no backbone. The evolution of American private insurance is rooted in this cruel, libertarian ideology of "individual accountability," atomized personal isolation, the consumer-driven healthcare movement. It is unconscionable, it is barbaric, and it must be exorcised from our national myth.


The stuff about Medicare for all as just the first step toward "health justice" is very compelling and addresses a lot of the naysayers who think we can't have single-payer because Americans eat too much junk food (which, again, is vigorously marketed). We can have single-payer and then not have people eat so much junk food. It's an interesting thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:52 pm 
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I am ready for it. The government runs everything else so well, let's do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
http://tinyletter.com/error/letters/some-thoughts-on-persuading-the-lukewarm-about-universal-single-payer

Most pertinent, I feel:
Quote:
3) Only a federal single-payer bears the costs of providing care, and the costs of not providing care. Align our incentives appropriately!

Right now, your private insurer only bears the costs of you receiving care. Because you are likely to change insurers in the future, and eventually go on Medicare, they don't actually feel the pressure to provide you care that keeps you healthy in the distant (and near) future. Instead, we all do — we all suffer when our friends and family get sick; our public money is allocated to care for people when they get sick.

So it makes perfect sense that the same actor who suffers when people don't get preventative care — all of us, united, represented by our federal government — should be the actor who also pays for that care in the first place.


It's important to think about the costs our country bears by having such a sick population. Addressing it up front feels like a sound investment to me.

What garbage. Laughable. If that were true then Medicaid and the VA would not be so bad as those are both government versions of lifelong care.

If the government wants to run the whole thing make me jealous of Medicaid patients.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:16 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I am ready for it. The government runs everything else so well, let's do it.

I know you believe anything run by the government is inherently bad but "for profit" health care is not your friend. As a pro-capitalism poster I'm sure you understand how they make money and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals. There is a reason every other industrialized nation went away from that model. If you have money and a good job of course you like the status quo. Screw the rest.

On a side note: does anyone think the insurance companies do a good job? Seriously, guys like denis and many others bash "the government" in typically generic fashion but dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. They don't even remotely fit into the capitalist concept of "competition keep them in line."

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I am ready for it. The government runs everything else so well, let's do it.

I know you believe anything run by the government is inherently bad but "for profit" health care is not your friend. As a pro-capitalism poster I'm sure you understand how they make money and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals. There is a reason every other industrialized nation went away from that model. If you have money and a good job of course you like the status quo. Screw the rest.

On a side note: does anyone think the insurance companies do a good job? Seriously, guys like denis and many others bash "the government" in typically generic fashion but dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. They don't even remotely fit into the capitalist concept of "competition keep them in line."

I think single payer here would be worse than now given our other unique challenges. I'm willing to consider a non subsidized public option or the catastophic care plan.

We would regret single payer.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I am ready for it. The government runs everything else so well, let's do it.

I know you believe anything run by the government is inherently bad but "for profit" health care is not your friend. As a pro-capitalism poster I'm sure you understand how they make money and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals. There is a reason every other industrialized nation went away from that model. If you have money and a good job of course you like the status quo. Screw the rest.

On a side note: does anyone think the insurance companies do a good job? Seriously, guys like denis and many others bash "the government" in typically generic fashion but dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. They don't even remotely fit into the capitalist concept of "competition keep them in line."

I think single payer here would be worse than now given our other unique challenges. I'm willing to consider a non subsidized public option or the catastophic care plan.

We would regret single payer.

You mean it would be worse for you. Possibly me as well. We only know one way. I work with people in Canada on a regular basis and most don't envy our system. I have generally been happy with my doctors but never with the insurance part of it.

A funny side note: they bashed Obama for the "you can keep your Doctor" statement. Fine, but in that same time frame my employer changed providers and my wife had to switch doctors to stay "in network". I truly don't see the allegiance to our current insurance providers other than that's what we're used to and generally unsubstantiated tales of horror from Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:40 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I am ready for it. The government runs everything else so well, let's do it.

I know you believe anything run by the government is inherently bad but "for profit" health care is not your friend. As a pro-capitalism poster I'm sure you understand how they make money and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals. There is a reason every other industrialized nation went away from that model. If you have money and a good job of course you like the status quo. Screw the rest.

On a side note: does anyone think the insurance companies do a good job? Seriously, guys like denis and many others bash "the government" in typically generic fashion but dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. They don't even remotely fit into the capitalist concept of "competition keep them in line."

I think single payer here would be worse than now given our other unique challenges. I'm willing to consider a non subsidized public option or the catastophic care plan.

We would regret single payer.

You mean it would be worse for you. Possibly me as well. We only know one way. I work with people in Canada on a regular basis and most don't envy our system. I have generally been happy with my doctors but never with the insurance part of it.

A funny side note: they bashed Obama for the "you can keep your Doctor" statement. Fine, but in that same time frame my employer changed providers and my wife had to switch doctors to stay "in network". I truly don't see the allegiance to our current insurance providers other than that's what we're used to and generally unsubstantiated tales of horror from Europe.

Many Canadians dislike their system when not around Americans they can hold it over. That's why they may have major changes too in the next 10 years especially if oil prices stay low.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I am ready for it. The government runs everything else so well, let's do it.

I know you believe anything run by the government is inherently bad but "for profit" health care is not your friend. As a pro-capitalism poster I'm sure you understand how they make money and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals. There is a reason every other industrialized nation went away from that model. If you have money and a good job of course you like the status quo. Screw the rest.

On a side note: does anyone think the insurance companies do a good job? Seriously, guys like denis and many others bash "the government" in typically generic fashion but dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. They don't even remotely fit into the capitalist concept of "competition keep them in line."

I think single payer here would be worse than now given our other unique challenges. I'm willing to consider a non subsidized public option or the catastophic care plan.

We would regret single payer.

You mean it would be worse for you. Possibly me as well. We only know one way. I work with people in Canada on a regular basis and most don't envy our system. I have generally been happy with my doctors but never with the insurance part of it.

A funny side note: they bashed Obama for the "you can keep your Doctor" statement. Fine, but in that same time frame my employer changed providers and my wife had to switch doctors to stay "in network". I truly don't see the allegiance to our current insurance providers other than that's what we're used to and generally unsubstantiated tales of horror from Europe.

Many Canadians dislike their system when not around Americans they can hold it over. That's why they may have major changes too in the next 10 years especially if oil prices stay low.

We can argue statements like that on both sides forever. Let's stick to the facts of our system.

Insurance companies in the U.S. exist to make a profit. They answer to their shareholders to increase that profit each year. How do they do that? You know the answer. Raise premiums. Deny benefits. Make customers determine when they've been wrongly denied and have them re-submit legitimate claims. Exclude those deemed as high risk. Dump those who become high risk. They can't lose. If you believe they are somehow more sympathetic to your needs than our government then I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:58 pm 
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I am not nearly as well versed in this stuff as many of you guys. Let me ask a few questions in regard to this discussion.

With a single payer system do monthly premiums go away, or will they still exist? Deductibles?

Is everything covered completely?

What happens to all of these high power insurance companies if the Gov't takes over this stuff?

There would seem to have to be a tax increase to be able to fund this? Would we be paying more in the extra taxes than the former premiums?

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I am ready for it. The government runs everything else so well, let's do it.

I know you believe anything run by the government is inherently bad but "for profit" health care is not your friend. As a pro-capitalism poster I'm sure you understand how they make money and what they are willing to do to achieve their goals. There is a reason every other industrialized nation went away from that model. If you have money and a good job of course you like the status quo. Screw the rest.

On a side note: does anyone think the insurance companies do a good job? Seriously, guys like denis and many others bash "the government" in typically generic fashion but dealing with insurance companies is a nightmare. They don't even remotely fit into the capitalist concept of "competition keep them in line."

I think single payer here would be worse than now given our other unique challenges. I'm willing to consider a non subsidized public option or the catastophic care plan.

We would regret single payer.

You mean it would be worse for you. Possibly me as well. We only know one way. I work with people in Canada on a regular basis and most don't envy our system. I have generally been happy with my doctors but never with the insurance part of it.

A funny side note: they bashed Obama for the "you can keep your Doctor" statement. Fine, but in that same time frame my employer changed providers and my wife had to switch doctors to stay "in network". I truly don't see the allegiance to our current insurance providers other than that's what we're used to and generally unsubstantiated tales of horror from Europe.

Many Canadians dislike their system when not around Americans they can hold it over. That's why they may have major changes too in the next 10 years especially if oil prices stay low.

We can argue statements like that on both sides forever. Let's stick to the facts of our system.

Insurance companies in the U.S. exist to make a profit. They answer to their shareholders to increase that profit each year. How do they do that? You know the answer. Raise premiums. Deny benefits. Make customers determine when they've been wrongly denied and have them re-submit legitimate claims. Exclude those deemed as high risk. Dump those who become high risk. They can't lose. If you believe they are somehow more sympathetic to your needs than our government then I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.

For profit isn't necessarily more expensive or worse. Our high healthcare costs are for a lot of reasons.

However, my answer to that is to let the government create a public option that doesn't get tax subsidies. It would be like the post office. Compete and then dominate the American insurance companies since they are as you describe. Should be pretty easy to win out shouldn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:03 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I am not nearly as well versed in this stuff as many of you guys. Let me ask a few questions in regard to this discussion.

With a single payer system do monthly premiums go away, or will they still exist? Deductibles?

Is everything covered completely?

What happens to all of these high power insurance companies if the Gov't takes over this stuff?

There would seem to have to be a tax increase to be able to fund this? Would we be paying more in the extra taxes than the former premiums?

Single payer means the government pays 100%. There may be a small copay for some things but that stretches the definition a little.

Most things would be covered though the government gets to decide. Expensive end of life care would be one of the first things that would have to be sorted out.

People like us would probably pay somewhat more in the form of taxes. It would be hard to add so many more people in and not have that happen to those who make above a certain level.

The insurance companies are banned from providing healthcare in single payer. You can't opt out.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I am not nearly as well versed in this stuff as many of you guys. Let me ask a few questions in regard to this discussion.

With a single payer system do monthly premiums go away, or will they still exist? Deductibles?

Is everything covered completely?

What happens to all of these high power insurance companies if the Gov't takes over this stuff?

There would seem to have to be a tax increase to be able to fund this? Would we be paying more in the extra taxes than the former premiums?

Single payer means the government pays 100%. There may be a small copay for some things but that stretches the definition a little.

Most things would be covered though the government gets to decide. Expensive end of life care would be one of the first things that would have to be sorted out.

People like us would probably pay somewhat more in the form of taxes. It would be hard to add so many more people in and not have that happen to those who make above a certain level.

The insurance companies are banned from providing healthcare in single payer. You can't opt out.


Thanks for the answers.

So what is the forecast for this actually happening at some point? Is it inevitable? Is it still a long shot?

It sounds pretty good, but my fear would be that the tax increases that would be associated with it would screw us more than the monthly health insurance premiums

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:15 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I am not nearly as well versed in this stuff as many of you guys. Let me ask a few questions in regard to this discussion.

With a single payer system do monthly premiums go away, or will they still exist? Deductibles?

Is everything covered completely?

What happens to all of these high power insurance companies if the Gov't takes over this stuff?

There would seem to have to be a tax increase to be able to fund this? Would we be paying more in the extra taxes than the former premiums?


"Single-payer" means we have one payer and the payer is the federal government. Because the risk pool is now the entire American population and Medicare has even more leverage against healthcare providers, you would pay less in increased taxes than you would toward private insurance. As for what will become of the noble health insurance company, Faust again:

Quote:
What about the jobs of people who currently work in the insurance industry?

The easy, callous answer is "well, at least they'll have healthcare if they lose their jobs." I'm not satisfied with that (even though it's true). I also think it's shortsighted.

1) Much of the infrastructure in the insurance industry is still necessary. So why not reallocate these workers to the federal sector, where their labor goes to the good of all, instead of private profit?
2) Someone needs to do the extremely sexy work of standardizing medical data feeds and outputs. here is a great way for people with hyperspecialized skills to be paid fair wages to design and implement that standardization.
3) And, hell, we're trying to fix a three-trillion-dollar sector here. It's peanuts to build a work program to help those who might otherwise be left behind. Solidarity for all workers, including those whose skills are an invention of the payer-provider labyrinth.


But for the most part they're coal miners in short-sleeve dress shirts and clip-on ties, fuck 'em

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:17 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
So what is the forecast for this actually happening at some point? Is it inevitable? Is it still a long shot?

The cynic in me says it won't happen until we put a bullet in every Republican legislator's head but I can also see some sort of event horizon where the public finally wises up, realizes this is what we need, and absolutely demands it.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Private health insurers provide zero value to the system as currently constructed.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:18 pm 
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I have a hard time grasping how Single Pay as just described could be implemented in our current political landscape. The health insurance lobby would fight tooth and nail to keep it at bay. My guess is the lobby is formidable and has few voting members of senate/house it does not effective stroke weekly if not daily.

The loss of jobs in a specific industry like health insurance is an interesting question. The govt would pick up a fair number as it would need to. Reality is they could probably hire everyone and then a few extra discards from other industries. But not sure how that works, and its overall impact. Probably a study or plan out there somewhere I guess. (edit -- asked and addressed by CH before posting)

How would this affect stockholders and retirement plans in today's world?


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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:19 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I am not nearly as well versed in this stuff as many of you guys. Let me ask a few questions in regard to this discussion.

With a single payer system do monthly premiums go away, or will they still exist? Deductibles?

Is everything covered completely?

What happens to all of these high power insurance companies if the Gov't takes over this stuff?

There would seem to have to be a tax increase to be able to fund this? Would we be paying more in the extra taxes than the former premiums?

Single payer means the government pays 100%. There may be a small copay for some things but that stretches the definition a little.

Most things would be covered though the government gets to decide. Expensive end of life care would be one of the first things that would have to be sorted out.

People like us would probably pay somewhat more in the form of taxes. It would be hard to add so many more people in and not have that happen to those who make above a certain level.

The insurance companies are banned from providing healthcare in single payer. You can't opt out.


Thanks for the answers.

So what is the forecast for this actually happening at some point? Is it inevitable? Is it still a long shot?

It sounds pretty good, but my fear would be that the tax increases that would be associated with it would screw us more than the monthly health insurance premiums

I don't see true single payer ever happening. That's a good thing. A hybrid system may happen with the government providing basic care and supplemental coverage from insurance companies. That is actually what most of the highest rated systems are. We will never be a top ten system. Too many outside factors here to do well in the rankings.

It will be interesting to see how things change. Many worldwide healthcare systems are strained. Ironically, single payer UK healthcare wants to become more like ours.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
RFDC wrote:
So what is the forecast for this actually happening at some point? Is it inevitable? Is it still a long shot?

The cynic in me says it won't happen until we put a bullet in every Republican legislator's head but I can also see some sort of event horizon where the public finally wises up, realizes this is what we need, and absolutely demands it.

What country are you emulating with single payer?

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:24 pm 
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beni hanna wrote:
The loss of jobs in a specific industry like health insurance is an interesting question. The govt would pick up a fair number as it would need to. Reality is they could probably hire everyone and then a few extra discards from other industries.


Progress is going to put people out of work everywhere. We're going to automate trucking in the near future and Democrats are willing to let those jobs evaporate because they think truckers are stupid and racist/sexist so they must deserve it. But they don't have the courage to tell white-collar workers that they can be made redundant too. They need to get over that, and that gets into discussions of a universal basic income which could really make the libertarians here plotz.

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 Post subject: Re: Health insurance
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:25 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
RFDC wrote:
I am not nearly as well versed in this stuff as many of you guys. Let me ask a few questions in regard to this discussion.

With a single payer system do monthly premiums go away, or will they still exist? Deductibles?

Is everything covered completely?

What happens to all of these high power insurance companies if the Gov't takes over this stuff?

There would seem to have to be a tax increase to be able to fund this? Would we be paying more in the extra taxes than the former premiums?

Single payer means the government pays 100%. There may be a small copay for some things but that stretches the definition a little.

Most things would be covered though the government gets to decide. Expensive end of life care would be one of the first things that would have to be sorted out.

People like us would probably pay somewhat more in the form of taxes. It would be hard to add so many more people in and not have that happen to those who make above a certain level.

The insurance companies are banned from providing healthcare in single payer. You can't opt out.


Thanks for the answers.

So what is the forecast for this actually happening at some point? Is it inevitable? Is it still a long shot?

It sounds pretty good, but my fear would be that the tax increases that would be associated with it would screw us more than the monthly health insurance premiums

The answer is in "who is us"?. Healthy people would be required to pay more to cover unhealthy people. That's really the big issue. For-profit insurance companies want nothing to do with those clients. That's why pre-existing conditions is a buzzword. Most Americans want them covered but insurance companies and hardline conservatives don't.

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