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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:14 am 
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DAC wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
312player wrote:
DAC wrote:
People need to stop complaining.

Sugar tax- simple, don't drink pop and other sugary crap. With childhood obesity and diabetes rates, I feel no sympathy for higher soda prices. I drink about a 12-pack or so of Coke or so a year.

Water bottle tax- get a water filter and a reusable water bottle. You save money in the long run and it tastes just as good. Besides, something like 80% of all water bottles end up in landfills and you're not using oil to make the PET bottles or trucks to transport it.

Done and done.
Agreed, well stated.
You rubes are missing the point. You don't drink soda, so the tax is fine. The point is that rather than cutting spending, revamping pensions, putting an end to corruption, the band aid on a broken leg fix is raise taxes. The Government should not be doing this. But they are, and because they are taxing the thing you don't use, that makes it ok.

As soon as they hit you on a property tax bill or something else that you "use," you are the type of people that are screaming bloody murder for impeachments, reforms, and other fixes. All the while it was happening right under your noses, and you didn't do a fucking thing about it.

If it was really about health, the tax would be 200%. If it was really about helping to balance budgets, the tax would be more manageable like a nickel on a 12pack and a dime on a 24pack so as not to scare people into buying these drinks outside of Cook County.


Supporting these taxes does not mean that you're against cutting spending, revamping pensions, and putting an end to corruption.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:17 am 
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Exactly. This tax may prove to be dumb if it does lose them money overall and it will quickly go away if it isn't about healthy choices.

However, taxes will have to be raised along with spending cuts to get out of the mess they are in. I guess the question is if the people of Cook County want soda addicts to pay for it or if they want to instead.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:20 am 
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Nope, Frank is spot on. They get away with the tax increase because they position it as hitting people who are doing bad things like drinking soda. That gets the non-soda drinking crowd to go along.

The best taxes apply broadly so that they raise the revenue needed to solve whatever budget problem exists. This tax doesn't raise that much revenue, hits businesses hard in a defined area (i.e. easy to avoid), and isn't going to change the cost of poor diets.

They keep incrementally raising the cost of living in this state. One year the tolls. The next year the income tax. The next year the general sales tax. The budget deal also raised the gas tax (little noticed) by removing the gasohol exemption. Then the property taxes. And nothing is done to address the underlying cost drivers.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:22 am 
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http://www.tax.illinois.gov/News/2017_Gasohol.htm

July 11th Effective Date for Changes to the Gasohol Sales and Use Tax Exemption

While P.A. 100-22 removed the 20-percent Sales and Use Tax Exemption for sales of gasohol effective July 1, 2017, the Department has allowed motor fuel retailers until July 10, 2017, to make the appropriate changes to their pumps. The Department will not hold retailers responsible for collecting from their customers the full 100 percent amount of tax on gasohol sales made prior to July 11th, but if a retailer began collecting the full amount of tax prior to July 11th, that retailer must remit all tax collected to the Department. Retailers should not attempt to refund the tax in order to obtain a credit from the Department.

Edit: article on it

https://townhall.com/watchdog/illinois/ ... nol-n10779

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:25 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Nope, Frank is spot on. They get away with the tax increase because they position it as hitting people who are doing bad things like drinking soda. That gets the non-soda drinking crowd to go along.

The best taxes apply broadly so that they raise the revenue needed to solve whatever budget problem exists. This tax doesn't raise that much revenue, hits businesses hard in a defined area (i.e. easy to avoid), and isn't going to change the cost of poor diets.

They keep incrementally raising the cost of living in this state. One year the tolls. The next year the income tax. The next year the general sales tax. The budget deal also raised the gas tax (little noticed) by removing the gasohol exemption. Then the property taxes. And nothing is done to address the underlying cost drivers.
That sounds great in theory but there are not enough plausible cuts that can be made to fix things.

It would be different if people were saying "This tax is bad, just raise the sales tax another 1%". Instead, it is basically "Don't raise taxes but someone fix the dire financial situation by cutting services" like the city can just decide to use less salt in winter and lay off some park workers and then all of a sudden Chicago and Cook County are doing as well as the boring utopia that Ogie lives in.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:32 am 
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I think people would be a little less pissed off about the tax if it was only on the subset of beverages with sugar at the levels of a regular Coke or Pepsi.

I have several family members and friends who live in border suburbs between Cook and another county. For $4/month, they'll do their grocery shopping 10 minutes away once a month. They are stubborn like that, once they get jolted into a new routine, they won't change it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
I think people would be a little less pissed off about the tax if it was only on the subset of beverages with sugar at the levels of a regular Coke or Pepsi.

I have several family members and friends who live in border suburbs between Cook and another county. For $4/month, they'll do their grocery shopping 10 minutes away once a month. They are stubborn like that, once they get jolted into a new routine, they won't change it.


If you are a sams club or costco near the border, you almost have to relocate.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:45 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
If you are a sams club or costco near the border, you almost have to relocate.


If I'm Northlake, I'm shitting bricks that the Sam's Club on North Avenue doesn't close. Fortunately for Northlake, there really isn't a good place for them to move and capture the Latino Northlake crowd along with Elmhurst and whoever is left in Melrose Park.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
That sounds great in theory but there are not enough plausible cuts that can be made to fix things.


For sure. Most people dislike the government on some level, but as soon as you target real cuts, they get upset. Federal level spending is quickly getting crowded out by defense, interest, and healthcare/retirement entitlement spending. Eventually the entire budget will be consumed by those line items. At the state and local level, you see interest and pension costs eating up ever larger portions of tax revenue. All of these items are next to impossible to reduce.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:21 pm 
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You can reduce defense.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
You can reduce defense.
That will fix Chicago!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:24 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
You can reduce defense.
That will fix Chicago!

Reduce defense spending...redirect towards social programs....people lifted out of poverty...violent crime goes down


Checks out!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
You can reduce defense.
That will fix Chicago!


bring in the National Guard !


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:45 pm 
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:lol: so you believe people will spend 5$ in fuel to avoid 4$ in soda tax at the grocer. SMH

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:46 pm 
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312player wrote:
:lol: so you believe people will spend 5$ in fuel to avoid 4$ in soda tax at the grocer. SMH

Or they'll just add pop to their "always stock up when im out of cook county" list


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:48 pm 
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312player wrote:
:lol: so you believe people will spend 5$ in fuel to avoid 4$ in soda tax at the grocer. SMH

You have to have a real gas guzzler to spend $5 in fuel.

Here's an idea, go when your tank is empty and fill up in Indiana while doing your shopping. On a full grocery shopping trip you could save $15 doing that.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Exactly. This tax may prove to be dumb if it does lose them money overall and it will quickly go away if it isn't about healthy choices.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Like the Red Light cameras? They haven't improved safety. Just changed the tyoe fo accidents that happen.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-red-light-camera-safety-met-20141219-story.html

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Not over yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:44 pm 
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I bought nearly a thouasand dollars in groceries for a neighborhood party by our hoa. I'd have driven an extra twenty minutes to save 30 or 40 bucks on kid drinks. That money would go straight into the beer fund at the cost of 70 or 80 dollars of sales tax to the county.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Just two weeks after raising the sales tax to pay for pensions, Cook County Board President Toni Preckwinkle is moving to give tens of millions of dollars a year in pay hikes to county workers.

Legislation introduced yesterday by the county chief would extend raises of up to 6.5 percent throughout county government. Only those who make more than $200,000 in annual salary would be excluded.

The proposal, sent to a Cook County Board committee for review, extends to other unionized employees new contracts with some county unions that were negotiated earlier this year.

It then goes a step further: It proposes granting raises to nonunion workers, too.

The price tag totals roughly $130 million in raises over a five-year period—$50 million alone in fiscal 2016.

(The union contracts run from Dec. 1, 2012, through Nov. 30, 2017, so this deal is retroactive, too, and those figures are included in the totals here.)

But the county says the proposal also includes nearly $30 million in health care savings, reducing the net cost to taxpayers for the deal to "only" $100 million or so.

$400 MILLION HIT

Put a different way: Taxpayers over the five years will be paying about $300 million more than if pay were frozen.

The hikes are being labeled cost-of-living increases and, over the period of time, average less than 3 percent a year. (The cost of living right now is between 1 and 2 percent.) But the raise proposal comes just 15 days after Preckwinkle pushed through a plan to boost the county's sales tax by a penny on the dollar, making the combined sales tax in Chicago 10.25 percent, the highest of any major city in the country.

Preckwinkle said the sales tax hike, which will bring in an estimated $474 million a year, was needed in part for infrastructure work, but mostly would go to shore up the county's pension plan, which has been severely underfunded. She did not mention anything about pay raises.

In fact, county income can be shifted rather easily from one category to another. If this money weren't spent on employee raises, it could well go toward pensions.

'COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUE'

Preckwinkle spokesman Frank Shuftan said the union contracts and other pay hikes "are a completely separate issue" from pension underfunding "and have been negotiated over several years."

"Any operational funds dedicated to the pay raises are dwarfed by the dollar amounts related to pensions, whose shortfall is now measured in the billions," he said. And the raises for nonunion workers are "a matter of basic fairness" for staffers who, in some cases, have not received a raise since 2012

Another spokesman, Edward Nelson, noted that the new contracts also include employee give-backs to pay for health insurance.

The deals for union workers call for a retroactive hike of 1 percent on June 1, 2013; 1.5 percent on June 1, 2014, and 2 percent on June 1, 2015. Another 2 percent will come this December, plus 2.25 percent on Dec. 1, 2016, and 2 percent on June 1, 2017.

Mid- and low-level nonunion workers—those below Grade 23 on the county's pay system—will get no retroactive payment under the proposal before the board, but will get 4.5 percent this October and another 2 percent on Dec. 1. Says Preckwinkle's resolution, "It is contemplated that additional increases may be provided in fiscal 2017."

The incremental pay-raise hit will be $5.3 million for fiscal 2013; $13.3 million for 2014 and $21.4 million for this year. (Cook's fiscal year begins on Dec. 1.)

Total payroll then would rise another $43 million in 2016 and $37 million in 2017. Note, however, that all of those increases are cumulative. So, in 2017, for instance, taxpayers will be on the hook not only for that year's hike, but the raises that cover 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 that were built into the base.

Preckwinkle will not even introduce her new budget until this fall.

During the debate over the sales tax hike, some commissioners argued that it was irresponsible to raise revenues without first examining proposed spending, including for wages.

Preckwinkle has said that she will consider reducing or eliminating the sales tax hike if Springfield approves her plan to restructure the county's pension system.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
Yes it is.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:53 pm 
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Cook County voters deserve this as they keep electing the same party every election. One party government (whether it's R or D) is always a recipe for failure.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:08 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Cook County voters deserve this as they keep electing the same party every election. One party government (whether it's R or D) is always a recipe for failure.


There's no amount of tax money that will satisfy politicians. Quite a bit of press this morning on the NY subway system. They just keep taking, and yet the infrastructure keeps crumbling and pensions have large deficits.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... 2a9593743e

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:27 am 
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New York can't function without the Subway, of course they should fund it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:49 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
New York can't function without the Subway, of course they should fund it.

I can't read the article but that seems to be a strange complaint about government spending.

I hate most public transportation but the NY subway is good.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:51 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
New York can't function without the Subway, of course they should fund it.

I can't read the article but that seems to be a strange complaint about government spending.

I hate most public transportation but the NY subway is good.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/us/new-yo ... index.html
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:54 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
New York can't function without the Subway, of course they should fund it.

I can't read the article but that seems to be a strange complaint about government spending.

I hate most public transportation but the NY subway is good.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/us/new-yo ... index.html
Image

Yeah because that never happens with other types of transportation.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:54 am 
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I'll take the word of a guy who lives and works in/near NY over you.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:55 am 
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Preemptively, no, you can't just further shift the costs of the Subway onto riders, who are already paying $2.75 a ride.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:56 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
New York can't function without the Subway, of course they should fund it.

I can't read the article but that seems to be a strange complaint about government spending.

I hate most public transportation but the NY subway is good.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/us/new-yo ... index.html
Image

Yeah because that never happens with other types of transportation.


Took the red line the other day. Looked just fine to me.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:57 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
I'll take the word of a guy who lives and works in/near NY over you.

I used to.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:58 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
New York can't function without the Subway, of course they should fund it.

I can't read the article but that seems to be a strange complaint about government spending.

I hate most public transportation but the NY subway is good.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/us/new-yo ... index.html
Image

Yeah because that never happens with other types of transportation.


Took the red line the other day. Looked just fine to me.

NYC public transportation is light years ahead of Chicago. The only thing better about Chicago is getting to the airports on it.

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