Caller Bob, Trump's Ambassador to the UN

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That's structured like the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer argument, but I have to agree.

Would have love to have seen that season. Boston is still nuts about that team.

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and finished second to the swarthy DiMaggio in the MVP race. what a season.

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What exactly is improper about the metaphor as posed? Both schools of thought (standard model vs. string theory)** attempt to explain the observable and theoretical, and both go about it in slightly different ways. That they both exist and attempt to explain the same phenomenon doesn't disprove either. The same holds for the "f" and "b" variants of WAR.

**My metaphor was slightly off, because string theory is actually poised to be the glue that binds the standard model with general relativity. It is not, in and of itself, running contrary to the standard model. It is SM and GR that are at odds with one another in certain instances. The fact remains, that we (meaning scientists smarter than I can even imagine) cannot "agree" on either one being the Grand Unifying Theory, but we know both do a bang up job of explaining 99.99999% of things we observe.

Yaz had a 193 OPS+ in '67.

Williams posted 200+ OPS+ figures (as high as 235) in '41, '42, '46, '47, '54 and '57.

I'd like to see your argument (read: figures and facts) that the OPS+ run environment adjustments were off by some 42 percentage points in Williams' favor.

You know that OPS+ from different seasons are unrelated. It's simply a measure of how the player compares to the average in that league in that season. And you also know the adjustments are far from exact or even "scientific". Or maybe you don't, but I believe you do.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

OPS+ is the adjustment for the run environment in which a given OPS was created. It is literally the codification of what you say a pitching "win" is, except for OPS. Odd that you want to point out how a given OPS+ isn't transferable across multiple games or seasons...kind of like a given pitching performance with a lack of run support. What could explain your sudden 180 on this? Guess we'll never know.

Anyway, to your point: Yes, OPS+ gives a measurement of how a player's performance stacked up against the league in which he gave that performance, resolved down to a single season. This means that Ted Williams had 6 seasons that were considerably more dominant over the league in which he performed, than Yaz's single best season.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Again, the value of the adjustment is questionable. But there's a more significant question if you're going to attempt to use OPS+ to compare players in different seasons. Do you think anything may have occurred in baseball to make competition significantly tougher in 1967 than it was in the early 40s?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Of course you did. Because you aren't interested in the real answer. You just want to beat people over the head with stats. There is some truth the idea that stats are more often used the way a drunk uses a light pole- for support rather than illumination.

As I said above, the popular SABR opinion is that the only better seasons any hitter ever had than Yaz's 1967 were by Babe Ruth:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/lead ... ason.shtml

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes--a larger strike zone. A few larger stadiums.

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Pssst... he means balcks.

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The relative difficulty of the league is made irrelevant by the league adjustment. That is literally what "league-adjusted" means. It highlights the difference between a .900 OPS put up in a league where the average OPS is .899, and .900 OPS put up in a more difficult league where the average OPS is .600. Williams' dominance of those earlier leagues was still, comparatively, more dominant than Yaz's individual dominance of what may have been a more difficult league in '67.

STATS ARE A CRUTCH USED BY EGGHEADS TO MAKE THEMSELVES SEEM SMART. NOW HERE ARE SOME EGGHEADS DISAGREEING WITH YOU, EGGHEAD.

Get a grip, JORR, you're looking sillier by the minute.

You're the guy who looks silly. "Let me pick whatever version of WAR helps me support my argument of the moment." And look, I don't even mind that. We all do that kind of shit. But you're arrogantly acting like you have some superior knowledge or "science" on your side which is utterly ridiculous in this case.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

what part of .406 do you not understand?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

For what is now the third time, then, please give me your facts and figures that paint the OPS+ league adjustment as "dubious" or "improper". Because all you've said to this point is that it is dubious and improper, without showing how that is the case. And before you start in: Yes, the leagues were different, that's exactly the point of league adjustment.

It attempts a little more than that. I believe there is a park adjustment in there as well. In any case, there's a whole lot of noise being added to the mix in that adjustment.

But regardless, the difficulty of the league is hardly irrelevant. You seem to be suggesting that a 120 OPS+ in the 2010 American Association is equivalent to the same OPS+ in the 1956 National League. That's just wrong.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Give me the formula for the adjustment.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Let me ask you this. You "chose the WAR outlet that suited your argument". Fine. But which WAR outlet you do actually feel is correct?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

For historical players, FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference are using the exact same defensive calculations, so the biggest difference (for historical players at least) is in their baseline offensive calculations of value. I like that FanGraphs uses wOBA as its base offensive metric, BR uses wRAA, which is a downstream massaging of wOBA data. I like that wOBA has a more simple adjustment for the league run environment, and doesn't try to further adjust the inputs of any given player until the positional adjustments are made.

Williams hit over .400 for a season. He wins since no one else has gotten close (RIP 1994 Tony Gywnn).

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I know this is a Douchebag thread, and I didn't want to create a Shout Out thread for him, but this is one reason why this man is a legend...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-hawk-harrelson-white-sox-wrigley-field-20170806-story.html

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George