One of my cousins says this about ultra-Blue city people getting sick of their environment and moving to Red states because it's so much better economically, then complaining that it's not Blue enough.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

People told us that in Montana but it was people moving to Montana to get away from their California or east coast problems but they brought their problems with them and complained they weren't back home.

That is what immediately popped into my mind when he posted that.

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Elections have consequences.

Not true

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Of course it's true. Pretend your house is a country. Are you going to allow a refugee to live with you? It's just like people who complain about tribalism. Everyone is tribal. You care more about your brother than you do about some guy you don't know. Caring about someone who lives next door more than you care about someone in Zimbabwe is just an extension of that.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think the following article is a good refutation of the home analogy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... f5d0b64645

But yeah, I would allow a refugee to live with me. I doubt they'd want to

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Well, I think you know that, at least theoretically, I'm against the entire concept of property rights. But there are entrenched systems and institutions that both you and I found when we were born. Many of them have such widespread acceptance that the mere idea of changing them drastically is nothing more than tilting at windmills.

The ideas that we're discussing here come down to tribalism. And the foundation of the "tribe" is family. We've just seen the whole Chus thing on this board. Outside of Hockey Gay most people agree that "family is off limits." But why? And is it really off limits? Julie DiCaro has a family. She's somebody's daughter. No, Chus's son isn't off limits because he's part of a family. He's off limits because Chus is a member of our tribe.

And you might welcome a refugee into your home, but I'm sure you'd expect him to adhere to certain behaviors. You'd likely rethink your hospitality- and it is hospitality- when a guy started slaughtering chickens in your living room.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

There's also the reality that in today's world, if a country was completely anti-immigration, it would lose out on tons of intellectual capital. I'd prefer that the best minds in the world be welcomed with open arms to work on things like curing cancer or nuclear defense systems. With that, you will get some bad ones too, but that's the cost of doing business.

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I doubt many in the PA hellhole Maddon is from are against all immigration.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Sure, and economic prosperity and declining birthrates seem to go hand in hand. A country needs immigration to stay vital. You see what happens with a truly xenophobic country like Japan. And I don't think anyone is against immigration of the best and brightest.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

They are against the implementation of Hispanic people into their society, it would seem.

Give them an IQ test. Deport the dumb ones.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Some, I assume, are good people.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I think most people aren't against immigration at all. For myriad reason though they are against illegal immigration. You can argue until the cows come home about who is right, to what degree they are and what is their reasoning. That doesn't really matter though.

The question for me is why is it so impossible for a country (us) to agree to a set of standards/laws for immigration that makes the best sense and then stick to that. The reasons why that cannot happen are the bigger concerns to me.

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Elections have consequences.

Should've nuked the state when Bernstein wanted to.

RIP cory.

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I guess I was traveling in your dream nuking?

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Elections have consequences.

Yes you were in New Mexico when that all went down.

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I don't see many people championing illegal immigration. I could be wrong.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Of course. But there has to be reasons on both sides of the aisle that such a simple matter cannot be resolved. Hint: Some on both sides do not want it resolved totally for different reasons.

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Elections have consequences.

Same reason MANY didn't want to "solve" Healthcare or "save" Medicare. It takes away an issue during election years.

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How many wedge issues do you need?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Are you sure about that? This is an economically depressed coal town that we are talking about here. It's very likely that a majority of the immigrants to the area are illegal immigrants.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not comfortable making those kind of assumptions. IF that were true that still doesn't change my statement.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Why aren't you comfortable with it? Where do you think most illegal immigrants end up? Isn't it in poorer areas?

It does change your statement though. If a majority of these immigrants are illegal then it becomes an issue about illegal immigration.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

As with many issues, both "sides" are ridiculous on the immigration debate. MANY libs would openly welcome the leadership of ISIS if it could score them political points, and MANY repubtards think the solution to their lack of work is to become completely protectionist and go back to the dark ages while not allowing anyone into the country.

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I don't make assumptions about people based on their race.

It doesn't change my point. Who is going around saying they support illegal immigration?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Neither am I. It is about economics.

This is the problem. The assumption here is that the residents of that town are against legal immigration when there is nothing to indicate as such. Maddon could have made it clear but he did not seem to do so.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't see that at all. This is one of the few issues most people on opposite sides of the aisle agree on.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Can't wait 'till you die and are out of the way.

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