ok. hawaiiyou is partly right. nas, sorry. there is no question jfk did not want a war in vietnam. there is also no question there would be no civil rights bills passed if jfk wasn't assassinated. robert was the civil rights guy, not jack. whatever trolling you want to do, or whatever you think you know, whatever link you want to find...it's bullshit. jack didn't want a war in vietnam. if anything, the cuban missile crisis scared the shit out of everything. we wanted peace, because we came to the brink.

lbj had the hugest hardon for communism. and he had general westmoreland in his back pocket. it is known.

It was done for a couple of reason:
1 The Fiasco in Cuba
2 The refusal to get involved into Vietnam,in fact he had signed NASM-263. It would have had the USa out of Nam by 65
3 Oil depletion allowance. He was ready to take a majority of this away
4 Break up of the CIA. After Bay of Pigs he had stated the CIA was out of control and he was going to smash it into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the wind.
5 Federal Reserve Destruction. He was planning on basically destroying the Fed and taking back the Govt control of money. In fact his treasury dept had even started to print it's own money,at collectors sites and shows very sought after are Kennedy dollar Bills and fivers printed directly by the US govt and not the Fed.
He was a danger to the MIC and the Shadow govt the actually runs this county ,that is why he was taken out.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Bobby Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson also hated each other with the intensity of a thousand suns. I haven't gotten that far into Part IV of the Caro yet but it wouldn't surprise me if Johnson pushed hard for civil rights just so he could whip his dick (named Jumbo) out and slap it all over Bobby.

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I think it was bigger than that. He spent a lot of political capital and punted the south for a group of people who don't vote.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Never knew Bobby and LBJ hated each other that much.

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a lot of people hated bobby...he was a firecracker.

His death was just as sketchy as his brother's.

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At your signature

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

FDR fired Joe Kennedy from the ambassadorship to Britain, and Johnson, who loved playing up his ties to Roosevelt (hence the "LBJ" nickname), loved to regale people with the story of how Roosevelt fired Kennedy. Bobby took it personally because he took everything personally and feuded with Johnson for years. THe brothers offered Johnson the vice-presidency with the expectation he would take it as an insult and a step down from Senate Majority Leader but then he accepted, whoops.

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LBJ hated the amount of influence that Bobby Kennedy had within the Administration. It was common knowledge that JFK didn't really fuck with Johnson. When there was a major crisis it was Bobby Kennedy's counsel which JFK sought. Cuban Missile and Bay of Pigs being the most notable. Bobby Kennedy also had complete autonomy to run the Justice Dept as he saw fit. Johnson was kept out of all major policy decisions and he resented the fact Bobby was always included.

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That's an indictment of JFK for not utilising a guy who knew where the dead bodies were and knew how to get shit done.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

There is so much stench around the Kennedy’s it’s difficult to figure which one got Jack and Bobby whacked. Pops bought jack an election, they pissed off the Mob, they pissed off the CIA, and it wouldn’t surprise me if there were lobbyists pushing Vietnam and they didn’t want to play ball.

LBJ gets ownership of Vietnam The draft alone gives it to him. It was arguably the biggest US Political disaster, ever. That makes LBJ a shit POTUS. Problem is, they’ve all been shit.

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Bush 2 invading Iraq is a bigger fuck up than Vietnam Imo.

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Add Woodrow Wilson getting us into WW1.

WW1 and WW2 were unavoidable, probably the only two wars that were absolutely necessary since we left British rule.

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WW2 was unavoidable but WW1 wasn't. WW1 was a stalemate before we joined. But we joined and gave the British the #'s.

Our boys died for the continuation of the British Empire in that war. The same boys who's parents and grandparents came to this country to run away from Empires

Luckily for this country Wilson got sick and we had full support of both parties in congress not to join the League of Nations which was a ploy by the British to re-control America under its wing.

After Germany finished with Europe they would have come for the US, they tried to get Mexico on board with this.

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Revisionist history is my favorite subject.

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Elections have consequences.

Someone please tell me he's trolling here?

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it depends on what he means by bigger fuck-up.

If you mean worse directly for the US, Vietnam wins as being the bigger fuck up.

If you mean worse in terms of ramifications for geopolitics and the region involved, then Iraq was worse.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

If China, Cambodia and Thailand went up for grabs and the region was chaotic followed by bombings world wide and terrorism at the cost of trillions.. Then I'd agree that Vietnam was as big as a blunder as Iraq.

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Admittedly, I haven't read all six pages of the thread. However, if this was discussed, I apologize...

Among the many theories/conspiracies regarding the JFK assassination is the alleged involvement of major organized crime figures. Does anyone believe that organized crime had a hand in the assassination?

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

Definatly. Some of the shooters and money men where from the mob. Mid level in the operation tops.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

I do. Chuck Giancana detailed how and why they took him out in the book Double Cross. Sounds somewhat plausible. He said that the mob worked in conjunction with the CIA and FBI to take out Kennedy. He stated that mob felt that they'd been double crossed by Joe Kennedy. Apparently they'd had an agreement in place prior to Kennedy becoming President and the Kennedys reneged. They were supposed to lay off of the mob in exchange for them helping JFK get elected. Instead Bobby came after them full guns blazing. It was at that point that they decided to take him out.

Chuck said that they used a military trained hit man that also doubled as a driver for one of the mob bosses. Said the guy was a crack shot.

Don't know how true but it makes for one helluva story. He also provided info as to why Jack Ruby had to take out Oswald.

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There was always talk about several "meetings" in the back room at Jack Ruby's club in Dallas some months prior to November 22nd, 1963.

In the investigation after the assassination, I had heard that authorities showed pics of some major OC players to a waitress and she positively identified several of the men who attended these "meetings".

Not knowing fact from fiction, one thing is certain from that time period... The Mob felt betrayed by the Kennedys and were not happy to say the least.

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

The Mob could do some things but there whee things they could not do.
1) Cover up the way the head wounds looked at Parkland vs Bethesda.
2 Change where the autopsy was to be done
3 Enforce a code of silence on those involved in the autopsy at bethesda
4do a piss poor job of investigating

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

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The mob was different 50 years ago, they ran pretty good until the early 90's...still haven't found Hoffa. I don't think the mob had anything to do with killing Kennedy, I put it all on the CIA.

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All you have too look it is all the people killed that are linked to the case

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"