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Jbi11s
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:40 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.


The general strength of the mob has always been an exaggerated fiction promulgated by Hollywood storytellers

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:47 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.


The general strength of the mob has always been an exaggerated fiction promulgated by Hollywood storytellers


I think they were a bit stronger and more connected during the 60's. Kennedy did allegedly attempt to use them to whack Castro. The Hit on Kennedy could have come from anywhere. He was wide open.

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:51 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.


The general strength of the mob has always been an exaggerated fiction promulgated by Hollywood storytellers


I think they were a bit stronger and more connected during the 60's. Kennedy did allegedly attempt to use them to whack Castro. The Hit on Kennedy could have come from anywhere. He was wide open.


but they weren't the logistics of the Bay of Pigs. They were the foot soldiers.

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chaspoppcap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:53 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.


The general strength of the mob has always been an exaggerated fiction promulgated by Hollywood storytellers


Everyone is Gangster until it is time to do Gangster things

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HawaiiYou
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:55 pm 
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The Gov/CIA in the 90s admitted using the mob to kill Castro.

Mob was used in the hit at lowest levels. The organizers brought in groups that benefitted with JFKs death.
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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:56 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.


The general strength of the mob has always been an exaggerated fiction promulgated by Hollywood storytellers


I think they were a bit stronger and more connected during the 60's. Kennedy did allegedly attempt to use them to whack Castro. The Hit on Kennedy could have come from anywhere. He was wide open.

They were the muscle and they transported merchandise. That's about it.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:56 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.


The general strength of the mob has always been an exaggerated fiction promulgated by Hollywood storytellers


I think they were a bit stronger and more connected during the 60's. Kennedy did allegedly attempt to use them to whack Castro. The Hit on Kennedy could have come from anywhere. He was wide open.


but they weren't the logistics of the Bay of Pigs. They were the foot soldiers.



No they were involved in the planning from some of the stuff I've read. Not the Bay of Pigs but the CIA employed them to hit Castro.

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:00 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
The Gov/CIA in the 90s admitted using the mob to kill Castro.

Mob was used in the hit at lowest levels. The organizers brought in groups that benefitted with JFKs death.

Some of those mob guys could get stuff done. Drugs, guns, sneaking into other countries....they were useful (as were others).

And they were involved with the CIA, no doubt. But there is no evidence that they were involved with Oswald, who is the one who killed Kennedy.

At least, that's what the evidence right now says.

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chaspoppcap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:01 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
The Gov/CIA in the 90s admitted using the mob to kill Castro.

Mob was used in the hit at lowest levels. The organizers brought in groups that benefitted with JFKs death.

Some of those mob guys could get stuff done. Drugs, guns, sneaking into other countries....they were useful (as were others).

And they were involved with the CIA, no doubt. But there is no evidence that they were involved with Oswald, who is the one who killed Kennedy.

At least, that's what the evidence right now says.


Nope it does not

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:02 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

but they weren't the logistics of the Bay of Pigs. They were the foot soldiers.



No they were involved in the planning from some of the stuff I've read. Not the Bay of Pigs but the CIA employed them to hit Castro.

Sure, they would have been useful. Trafficante made a living smuggling merchandise across borders, over oceans...but it wasn't their plan.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:02 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The operation seems far too sophisticated for mob guys. If they did it without the help of others it would be pretty easily tracked back to them. If they did it with the help of others, they would seem to be the easy fall guy for much more respected organizations.

No fucking chance. The mob is so unstable and they rat on each other all the time, just like everyone else does. Who would trust them? Who would invest this great secret in an unstable industry, especially in days when the top guys were routinely assassinated?

If there was conspiracy, someone would have blabbed about it by now in order to get charges reduced.

Makes for a great story, though. So may odd characters surrounding Oswald, Ruby, Dallas, the Kennedys, the CIA . . .

Eh... You're only going from what Mob peeps have leaked. I'm sure there is a few terrabytes of info we'll never know regarding minor to major operations of the mafia.


The general strength of the mob has always been an exaggerated fiction promulgated by Hollywood storytellers


I think they were a bit stronger and more connected during the 60's. Kennedy did allegedly attempt to use them to whack Castro. The Hit on Kennedy could have come from anywhere. He was wide open.

They were the muscle and they transported merchandise. That's about it.



Giancana said that the hit was done with the knowledge of Govt officials. There were 4 factions that wanted him dead. During the 50's and 60's their reach allegedly stretched up to the higher levels of Govt.
Supposedly had J. Edgar in their pocket too.

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:03 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
The Gov/CIA in the 90s admitted using the mob to kill Castro.

Mob was used in the hit at lowest levels. The organizers brought in groups that benefitted with JFKs death.

Some of those mob guys could get stuff done. Drugs, guns, sneaking into other countries....they were useful (as were others).

And they were involved with the CIA, no doubt. But there is no evidence that they were involved with Oswald, who is the one who killed Kennedy.

At least, that's what the evidence right now says.


Nope it does not

Well argued! And with plenty of evidence!!

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:05 pm 
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long time guy wrote:


Giancana said that the hit was done with the knowledge of Govt officials. There were 4 factions that wanted him dead. During the 50's and 60's their reach allegedly stretched up to the higher levels of Govt.
Supposedly had J. Edgar in their pocket too.

Not a real credible source. Neither was his daughter. I have no doubt that he was involved with gov. types, though.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:05 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

but they weren't the logistics of the Bay of Pigs. They were the foot soldiers.



No they were involved in the planning from some of the stuff I've read. Not the Bay of Pigs but the CIA employed them to hit Castro.

Sure, they would have been useful. Trafficante made a living smuggling merchandise across borders, over oceans...but it wasn't their plan.



Can't remember which book I read but one of them said that the reason they didn't whack Castro was because they couldn't get close enough too him. Communist country with closed borders made it difficult. They also had reasons for wanting him dead too. He bounced them out of Cuba after Batistas overthrow.

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chaspoppcap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:06 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
The Gov/CIA in the 90s admitted using the mob to kill Castro.

Mob was used in the hit at lowest levels. The organizers brought in groups that benefitted with JFKs death.

Some of those mob guys could get stuff done. Drugs, guns, sneaking into other countries....they were useful (as were others).

And they were involved with the CIA, no doubt. But there is no evidence that they were involved with Oswald, who is the one who killed Kennedy.

At least, that's what the evidence right now says.


Nope it does not

Well argued! And with plenty of evidence!!


You really want to go down the rabbit hole?

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:08 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
long time guy wrote:


Giancana said that the hit was done with the knowledge of Govt officials. There were 4 factions that wanted him dead. During the 50's and 60's their reach allegedly stretched up to the higher levels of Govt.
Supposedly had J. Edgar in their pocket too.

Not a real credible source. Neither was his daughter. I have no doubt that he was involved with gov. types, though.


His daughter used to go on Brandmeier's show back when I was in high school and spill the beans about Sammy conspiracies on a monthly basis. It was a step below believing someone on Art Bell.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:09 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
long time guy wrote:


Giancana said that the hit was done with the knowledge of Govt officials. There were 4 factions that wanted him dead. During the 50's and 60's their reach allegedly stretched up to the higher levels of Govt.
Supposedly had J. Edgar in their pocket too.

Not a real credible source. Neither was his daughter. I have no doubt that he was involved with gov. types, though.



It was Chuck his brother. Not Sam. The problem with shit like this is that it can only come from these types of guys. They have motives for sensationalizing the info but the stuff about mob connections were supported in numerous books. Not just by mob guys either.

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:13 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
long time guy wrote:


Giancana said that the hit was done with the knowledge of Govt officials. There were 4 factions that wanted him dead. During the 50's and 60's their reach allegedly stretched up to the higher levels of Govt.
Supposedly had J. Edgar in their pocket too.

Not a real credible source. Neither was his daughter. I have no doubt that he was involved with gov. types, though.


His daughter used to go on Brandmeier's show back when I was in high school and spill the beans about Sammy conspiracies on a monthly basis. It was a step below believing someone on Art Bell.

I wish I had got into that Art Bell racket. I could have made some dough.

And in case people think we're ripping on Italians: #notalldagos

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:15 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
The Gov/CIA in the 90s admitted using the mob to kill Castro.

Mob was used in the hit at lowest levels. The organizers brought in groups that benefitted with JFKs death.

Some of those mob guys could get stuff done. Drugs, guns, sneaking into other countries....they were useful (as were others).

And they were involved with the CIA, no doubt. But there is no evidence that they were involved with Oswald, who is the one who killed Kennedy.

At least, that's what the evidence right now says.


Nope it does not

Well argued! And with plenty of evidence!!


You really want to go down the rabbit hole?

No, Chas, I already did that. Read all of that stuff. Great stuff, fun to read and think about, enlightening, really, and applicable to other areas. But . . . in the end . . . there's only one explanation.

EDIT: As of now. Barring further evidence.

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chaspoppcap
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:17 pm 
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he failed a parafin test when in custody and none of his finger prints where on the weapon.

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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:20 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
he failed a parafin test when in custody and none of his finger prints where on the weapon.

Chas, are you claiming there's a TON of weird shit surrounding this thing????

Well, you'd be right. Some of 'em can be explained easily. Some . . . not so easily. Some maybe not at all.

Look, I hear ya. I want to believe it. I just no longer do. But the weirdness surrounding this is, at the very least, intriguing.

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Curious Hair
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:25 pm 
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formerlyknownas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
picture


and the oil barons, and the John Birchers, and the Cuban exiles, and . . .

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