Well I have the data. But I am sick of countering trolls and uninformed people with real facts. If you need to look it up, Conning is a nice resource. I also use SNL and AM Best. They all have industry aggregates.

P&C insurance is collectively a losing deal. They pay out more in losses in expenses than they take in with premium (About a 103 combined ratio). The industry is only profitable because of investment income earned on the "float". The industry does not return its cost of capital. The biggest competitive problem is that a large portion of the industry is comprised of non-profit mutual like American Family, State Farm, and Nationwide whereby their "shareholders" are their policyholders. These companies try to run their underwriting operations close to breakeven and return any excess charges back to policyholders in the form of premium credits or dividend checks.

Edit: Ah fuck it, the data is easy to find. This is for Homeowners.

2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
in order:
106.9%
122.4%
104.1%
90.3%
92.4%
91.9%
93.2%
For all P&C coverages in U.S.
102.3%
107.7%
103.1%
96.8%
97.2%
97.7%
100.6%

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Dennis is Caller Bob!

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Then why doesn't everyone do what American Family and State Farm do? You make it sound like the entire industry is a lie (or at best, that the primary business is a loss leader for outside investments, like movie theaters losing money on movies but making a killing on the soda business).

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When you say P&C are you removing auto from that equation? Because Home(Property only) is known to be more profitable vs auto.

I am not exactly sure what you mean. Mutuals by design are owned by their policyholders. So they have no incentive to make a market return on their underwriting books. If they did, they would be overcharging their policyholder/shareholders. Companies like mine and leash's, have shareholders that are distinct from their policyholders (stock held insurers). We seek to earn a 15% return on equity and do so by underwriting to a profit. Since we compete in an industry where we are pressured by non-profit competitors, the entire industry does not make money on an underwriting basis.

It's that simple.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I gave you industry and HO data above. P&C includes all P&C lines, workers comp, auto, homeowners, general liability, etc etc. Auto is generally a better line, although the recent results do not bear it out- 2010-2016:

100.9%
101.6%
102.1%
101.7%
102.4%
104.6%
106.3%

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I would like homeowner only data, if you have it.

No I was agreeing with Don.....Bob is talking out his ass for sure.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Above. I edited my post. It is a cat driven line, but there are attritional losses- theft, slip and falls on property, dog bites, pipe bursts, etc.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Oh, good ... you confused me.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

http://go.preciseleads.com/auto-insuran ... wners-rise



I guarantee you they absolutely rake in the milder weather Midwest markets. They also really seem to be cutting expenses. I saw it last hailstorm, they counter with their own adjusters, no new roof, they will pay to have six or seven shingles replaced.

So you think if you have, say, a (relatively) small section of your roof damaged but the rest is just fine, that the insurance company is supposed to absorb the cost of replacing an entire roof? Spoiler alert - that's not how things work ... or have ever worked.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I'm not arguing they should work that way. But yes, I know people that have really got a sweetheart deal when storm damage hit. All this rigmarole and Denis trying to act cool with his fancy graph's..where did it get you? Nowhere, yeah, the homeowner's insurance industry alone has been profitable, based on recent trends..like I said yesterday..so this was a complete waste of time, no?

You talking out of your ass is indeed a complete waste of time, can't argue that.

However, it is also amusing you speaking authoritatively about how insurance works because you (supposedly) know a couple of folks that seemingly got lucky with their adjuster's assessment ... so please, don't let me stop you ... continue on.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

My take was that the homeowners insurance LOB is extremely profitable right now and that is correct.

If there's significant structural damage to part of the roof, like a joist splitting, doesn't the whole thing have to be replaced? It certainly calls for more than a reshingling.

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no?

This is going to avoid the Midwest. Thank you Hurricane Harvey, I had plans!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist Joist

Man is it fun to say joist!

They should have named it "Black Lives Matter, too" then I guess.


Though I dont believe you are dumb enough to think that Black Lives Matter is saying ONLY Black lives matter.

you stupid guido it's pronounced "jerst"

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Not as fun as it is to say moist.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

My wife got into a Twitter conversation with a bunch of people about words that sound dirty but aren't and "moist" was the consensus choice.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Swell

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Not to sound like a dick, but this is the frustrating part of the industry. Bob's facts probably aren't even close to the real account (sorry, Bob), and no one knows what they're talking about regarding insurance contracts.

I hear these stories all the time, and they're usually very far from the truth.

And Bob, you are incorrect on your profitability comments, too. P/C companies have to compete with other carriers. If they were making exorbitant amounts, someone would come in with lower rates and lower margins.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Sounds like you are making a case how the free markets lower insurance rates. Bernie won't be pleased.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!