These guys born before 1980 are of the Men work, women take care of the child mindset.


That's how it always was

that's nice. what was your wife doing?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Recovering from a C section, feeding him nearly constantly, catching up on sleep as that included the nights, and also trying to bond with the kid before she had to go back to work.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You aren't more liberal than I am. You're a guy who wants to tweak the status quo so we have a societal version of the rebuilt Soldier Field. I can see a vision of an entirely different system. I'm not married to the prevailing system of U.S. pseudo-capitalism.

There are reasons people behave the way they do just as there are reasons animals behave the way they do. It isn't always thought out. The modern workplace doesn't look the way it does because some white males way back at the beginning of time sat around at a table figuring out how to keep women down. It evolved that way because of differences in the sexes.

Now, we can say we've "evolved" and make all kinds of laws or rules in attempts to influence behaviors within the context of the established system, but they don't always achieve the goals they were designed to meet.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Is that a "mindset" or just nature? How do most mammalian species do it?

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Freedom is our Strength.

If you flipped my wife's delivery injuries from first child to second I would have needed to do everything for my older kid for 2 months probably. That's another place this can get a bit more complicated as to recovery time. I was lucky enough to be available to help my wife with that first child as she was completely laid up for close to a month. With second child my daughter basically went everywhere with me if she was awake so my wife didn't have to chase her around in my abscence.

first kid I took about 8 days PTO (ie earned vacation), the second kid I was running my own business and took no time off. Thankfully mother in law came to help for a couple weeks. Otherwise my wife would have been pretty tired!

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

exactly; isn't it common knowledge that the nurturing part of an infant is most important? both mom and dad should be around the baby during that period. it's not just for biological reasons. that bonding period will go a long way as the child gets older.

except for FAjent. there's no hope there. poor kids.

It's a good thing everyone has access to free labor to help take care of their newborn children.

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It's easy to say blow the whole system up but then you fight hard against incremental positive change in many areas. I'm sure blowing up the whole system sounds great at dinner parties but it rings hollow when you fight against something like treating men and women the same in terms of maternity leave.
Hey look, JORR is married to the prevailing system of U.S. pseudo-capitalism.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I dont know. Does nature change? Wasnt there a time when clubbing a woman over the head and taking her was "nature"?


I'll say this, the dad being the one who just works and yells at the kid ocassionally while mom does 90% of the parenting is not the ideal situation, imo.

we would have just dealt with it. people have been having babies for thousands of years under much more difficult situations.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Right. Why do people even go to hospitals? People were having babies for a long time without them!

Right. Why do people even go to hospitals? People were having babies for a long time without them!

...or you know, the father can help!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

why does it have to be the father that helps? can't the mother get off her ass and help too?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

It should be both.

Please describe the role of the father in the first year of life for a child.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So we're right back to doing stuff so we can call ourselves "good people" at those dinner parties without effecting any real change. You were the one who said you're more liberal than I am. If you're really liberal let's start here- every person on earth should have a roof over his or her head and enough to eat. Why should anyone have an extra house until everyone has one? You see that as some impossible achievement so you fall back on the pseudo-capitalist model with which you're familiar and complaining about "free puppies".

We're getting away from the subject at hand though. You can pass laws to make these businesses do whatever you want them to do. Most will put up with it to a certain point before they start to look for ways to circumvent it.

I have no problem acknowledging that in most cases the mother is going to be the primary caregiver for the child and granting women more paid time based on that fact. I don't see that as discrimination against men.

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Freedom is our Strength.

there is no one way or right way.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

What about Gay couples who adopt newborns?

what about them?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I agree that everyone should have housing in America, and that every person who works should make enough to afford it without help from the government. It's a different discussion if you are talking about the whole world. We can't really control what North Korea does.

How very "big business" of you. I'll stay on the side that men and women should be treated equally in the workplace and providing different benefits should be avoided if possible and clearly a company that can afford to lose a woman for 6 weeks can also afford to lose a man for 6 weeks.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The problem is you came in with the idea that the man shouldn't be doing anything besides sitting there.

Clearly, the right way would be for the father to be involved in helping out with a newborn. Do you agree?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well if it's gender based, then neither gets the longer time?

I think people should be treated equitably in the workplace which, depending on the circumstances, may or may not mean equally.

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Freedom is our Strength.

it appears that MANY people can't read!

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

This may sound extreme but I think it's great for men to be actively involved in parenting and do things like change diapers and read to the baby. It's also perfectly fine for a man to want to be around his child before they turn 3.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Two weeks is plenty for a guy. I'm done fathering children(thank God right?) but man, I wanted outta dodge after week 1. Fucking baby crying, wife in a bitchy mood, yelling, screaming at you the other kids.....post pardon depression. No sex..shits just a mess.

That's just crazy talk

What is the distinction between equitably and equally?

In this circumstance specifically, why should a man get 2 weeks off and a women get 6 weeks off?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!