Yes yes, their history of bricking every single draft pick since Butler and having to settle for second or third choice free agents doesn't matter at all because injuries. These trends also give me nothing but confidence about their ability to oversee a complete rebuild.

Oh, I forgot you said Kyrie would go for significantly injured all-star talent, not all-star talent. And yeah, having literally no tradeable assets outside of Butler definitely didn't impede their ability to make trades at all.


45 wins in this year's West would significantly trump anything GarPax and "The Mayor" have pulled off in the far weaker East the past 2 years, mediocre results you nevertheless celebrated last year or attempted to sweep under the rug with the patented injuries excuse the year before.

So now the goal posts is moved further to include injured All Star talent. You could remove Thomas altogether and Irving still goes for a higher value. It's also silly because Butler was traded for an injured player too.

GarPax's inability to find players outside of the 20th pick is really an indictment of what exactly?

Hoiberg finishing where he was expected to finish is an excellent example of how garbage he is as a coach. Why can't anyone see that?

Now the spin is that they were only predicted to win 41 games because he was the coach. A more respected coach would have taken such stellar talent to what, 43 games?

Again I'm really interested in seeing how the Thibs/Butler/Taj express is proceeding too. I'm fairly certain that it will be light on that talk if it's not going well.

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I was right about Minnesota last year and I will be right this year. None of that changes how awful that trade was.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Butler was traded for an injured player bc gar is a fucking moron

The Bulls have been pretty good up until the last 2 years. I'm fairly certain that Apologists and world class excuse makers like you will have a different take on the Wolves winning 45 games. When it is guys that we like the opinions tend to skewed. If they bomb the idiotic "obsession" talk will be the order of the day. Meanwhile GarPax/Hoiberg bashing never seems to receive the same type of assessment. Even as they won 10 more games the apologists were out.


The Bulls will stink this season. GarPax have to own a great portion of it. Keeping Butler wasn't going to make them championship contenders. It was over once Rose didn't have it.

Their biggest problem as Gms is that they fall in love with their guys too much. Butler should have been dealt last off season. Gibson should have been moved 3 season's ago when Gasol was signed. People on this board weren't in favor of either move. Now you get what you get.

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Whom could he have been traded for?

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Whom could he have been traded for?

The reason that Kyrie Irving possessed more value is because unlike Butler he is legitimate #1 option. If Minnesota becomes a legitimate contender Towns and not Butler will be their best player. Butler may slip behind Wiggins in the pecking order before too long.

GarPax shopped Butler for over a year. When it was all said and done they made the best trade they could possibly expect to make. People in Chicago overvalued the guy. People around the league didn't. That is all that was too it.

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You tell me, you always have the inside scoop on what's out there

MANY players. Dumping Taj was fine if you didn't think that you were going to be a playoff team. They included McDermott AND a 2nd round pick to get a player that isn't even a D-League talent. It was a shit trade.

Now they've given Felicio $32M and they're unsure if they want Mirotic.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The players they received in that trade were the best that they could do for Butler. People on here were talking about 2 top 5 picks for him plus another player. Told you he wouldn't go for 1 top five let alone 2. Butler was a good not great player on a mediocre team. When he had chance to really step up and show that he was great he couldn't do it. His impact was further diminished by guys like Rondo. They lost 4 straight and Butler didn't look all that hot as they were losing.

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Would not have paid Felicio that amount of money and Taj was another guy with limited value. They got nothing for him yet still had a better record once he was bounced.
I don't trust them to lead the rebuild but this notion that they have been God awful at their jobs is fallacious.

What they are doing now should have been done a year ago. They should have traded Butler and tanked the season. From what I remember Thibs didn't want to give up a top 5 for Butler straight up and no one else was offering anything near that.

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Gar has been awful. Paxson WAS good.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Don't one of you motherfuckers have sickle cell, or something?

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Not a single pick involved in the McDermott trade was after the 20th pick. Denzel Valentine wasn't either. Again, bricking every single pick since 2011 is inexcusable. Drafting late may be hard, but failing at every single pick is an equally astounding feat. Few GMs have a record of that kind of incompetence, but then again, no executive has been around as long as Paxson without even an NBA finals appearance, never mind any kind of significant win.
Did Hoiberg finish where they were expected to finish in 2015-2016? Yes or no?

Again, you playing the "everyone is ducking me!" card remains rich as ever since you were ghost after your big ol' "2015-2016 Narrative" thread. At most you came back sheepishly a few months later to complain that Hoiberg was missing key players like the benched Joakim Noah and Mike Dunleavy and that's why the Bulls didn't even sniff the playoffs.
Why should anyone trust this "tried their best" rubbish? It requires an absurd amount of blind faith in a front office that's looked incompetent for years. It's just as likely people around the league knew they could fleece the same team that gave up a 2nd round draft pick to get Cameron Payne; Thibs certainly knew he could and that's exactly what he did.

The Bulls finished 8 games worse with twice as many injuries during Hoiberg's first year coaching. How do you explain the fact that the terrible coach finished 10 games better than everyone's favorite Thibs this past year?
You aren't a ducker so I'm sure you will have no trouble addressing that.

Also The Bulls weren't exactly fleeced for Butler. You overvalued him and the rest of the league didn't. You can blame GarPax all you want but the fact remains that there wasn't a market for a ball stopping malcontent. Danny Ainge admitted as much and Lowe reported on it.

The Thibs firing until he proves otherwise was the right move. He stunk last year and it's interesting that there isn't much contending talk surrounding them this year. Middle of the pack in the West with two terrible contracts on the books. Has he demonstrated that he is all that competent as an executive?

It's funny how everyone points to Draymond Green as a shining example of his genius yet He passed on Jamal Murray for Kris Dunn last year. He also could have had Butler for a cheaper price last year. Are chief duckers like you willing to address this? His executive skills til he proves otherwise are much worse than Paxson's. There are at least 12-15 that are worse yet you bash because they don't set some arbitrary message board standard.

An arena where guys like Cowley rules the damn roost.

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Love these long unnecessary quotes.

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I didn't post here much in the halcyon days of this board but it's obvious that the GarPax hatred is tied to Thibs and guys like Adams. I constantly reference Thibs because the genesis of GarPax hatred is tied to it. They had the nerve to fire the fiery task master coach beloved by a city that loves those kinds of coaches. Until he proves otherwise it was the right move. They will never be objective about it so I'm calling it for what it is.

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They did not have twice as many injuries compared to Thibs' last year. Thibs' had players lose a combined 124 games to injuries his last year, while Hoiberg lost somewhere in the 170s. And Thibs had to use 21 different starting lineups compared to Hoiberg's 25 in his first season. Pretending that Hoiberg had to deal with some kind of unprecedented injury problem to excuse his performance is nonsensical, particularly since a very large portion of those games lost came from a Noah who Fred was actively trying to marginalize as it was before he went down.
Cause one team plays in the West and one plays in the East and despite all of your repeated spin that the conference gap was closing, it sure as hell is easier to win games in the East. And given how you're so eagerly deploying the injury excuse above, Lavine going down certainly didn't help the Wolves out much either.
Everyone in the national media has mocked the Bulls for that trade. Lowe himself, who also mocked Chicago's incompetence, said the Celtics were willing to give up a big package of picks at the trade deadline but GarPax were insistent on getting win-now players like Crowder too. Perhaps you should tell all these NBA reporters that GarPax really were trying their darndest though; they're probably all just equally biased against the dynamic duo like that damn Joe Cowley.

Kris Dunn was the right pick since GarPax are still fascinated by him. Dunn and the injured Lavine were both subsantially less valuable during the 2017 draft than they were in 2016, yet Thibs was still able to make them centerpieces of the trade for Butler and got the Bulls draft pick to boot (your boy Lowe referred to this as "mind-tricking the Bulls.")

The idea that there are 12-15 executives in the league worse than Paxson is hilarious. He's definitely one of the most experienced execs in the league though, as anyone who's been around as long as him has actually managed to win something or was long ago fired for failing to do so.

Why is it on Thibs to prove GarPax wrong rather than GarPax to prove themselves right? What exactly have they accomplished in the post-Thibs era, a period which I remind you is currently double the length of the Thibs at Minnesota era?

Nah dog ain't hunting. Thibs has to have skin in the game too. If he is the coach that you and others deem him to be then he should be able to prove it.

They have proven that they can be 10 games better with a worse roster. He has,proven that he can have a worse record than Sacramento with 3 of his players in the top 10 in minutes. He also has proven that he can botch a top 5 pick and give up more to acquire a guy than he would have had to pay a year earlier.

He also has,proven that he can make two of the worse off season signings of the summer.

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The Bulls actually traded Butler for less this year. They traded him for an injured player (going into a contract year), an older 2nd year guard (that may be a bust) and a pick swap.

The Bulls may have won the lottery when it's all said and done but you can't objectively say they did better this year.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Whom could they have traded him for last year?

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Why is the relevant comparison what Thibs has done with the Wolves rather than what Thibs did with the Bulls vs what GarPaxBerg have done the subsequent 2 seasons? AFAICT the only reason to emphasize the former over the latter is because you don't care for the implication of the latter comparison.

GarPaxBerg have proven they can take a 50-win team that was supposed to beat the Cavs in the playoffs but for the head coach's incompetence and proceed to completely miss the playoffs a mere year later. Quite the accomplishment!

Instead of saying the name of who I'm replying to, let me quote this one as well.

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The Bulls are 613-519 since John Paxson became GM. I guess in yours and Joe Cowley's worlds that is the epitome of incompetence and ineptitude. A terribly run franchise run by terrible men.

Fred Hoiberg didn't coach the same players as Tom Thibodeau. His team was injured for most of the year or he equals or passes Thibodeau's last season record. If you weren't so biased you'd admit that.

You are,going to duck the Thibodeau issue as illustrated by the "why do we wish to bring that up". Also Jimmy Butler remember him? He had his 2 best seasons as an NBA player playing for the idiot Fred Hoiberg. Funny how that never gets mentioned either. Hint: Doesn't fit the narrative

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Minnesota was willing to give them the #5 and a healthy Lavine. The Bulls wanted Wiggins. They ended up settling for an injured Lavine and a 25 year old kid that could be a bust. This is with Butler coming off an All NBA and All Defensive year. That isn't better value.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Dunn isn't 25 and the Bulls were able to include a lottery pick this year. I'm also not willing to declare Dunn a bust based on the Thibs eye test either. He hasn't shown that he is a savant when it comes to talent evaluating.

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Your dislike for Butler and Thibs won't allow you to see a lot of stuff. Thibs track record with point guards has always been great. A draft swap doesn't make this a better deal and you know it.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!