They wouldn't even know what I was talking about.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Why'd you take me to a gay steel mill?

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This thread is making me glad that I've long passed that period with my sons.

It's probably a community thing, but growing up around here it's something that is/was actively(violently) shunned & abhorred. Probably why the closet/down low issues are so much of a problem in the community. I've had discussions with my own dad and degree to which his dad was a homophobe in 1946/1956 shocked the hell out of me. My best friend for years was bisexual and I didn't realize it or care. My parents did, but then they realized that I didn't give a damn and was comfortable with my own identity, so they finally stopped being funny about our friendship. For the record, while I don't think he had a toy kitchen, he did have a dad that I don't think ever accepted him for what he was, leading to a sharp downward spiral and his eventual death from coke & aids.

I'd feel a little odd buying one for my sons, but if I could get past getting Wrestlemania once for the oldest & Cubbie wear once for the youngest, that feeling too would pass.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

ok. I think you're confusing him by applying gender bias to a kid too young to understand why he can't play with a toy.

As to the 2nd question, I don't have a son. However I view your premise as a bit of a strawman. Assuming we are talking about a young boy I would just laugh at the clothes and makeup because it's both funny and harmless. I'm not sure why you see long term significance. As to the doll I guess it would depend on whether he really wants it. My guess is that would be unlikely given that it is marketed toward girls but again...no big deal.

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

I wouldn't have thought twice about a cooking set. I would have raised an eyebrow at barbies.

I have an ex-co-worker who has been dressing her son in dresses since he was 2 (he's now 5). She claims he begged for dresses, but I get the feeling he mentioned it once or twice and they swung way over to the other side and bought him a full wardrobe to be empowering. He started kindergarten this year in a dress.

I get a sense that this could be more nurture than nature, but time will tell I guess.

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It's not a strawmam. If you have an issue with me being against these things then naturally I assume that you will let your young son wear makeup and women clothes and buy him Barbies. Similar to you I wanted to know why.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I've had this discussion a few times with people I know. I often wondered what would happen if one of the "guys" ever came out and admitted they were gay. No doubt they'd be shunned.

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Then you hang with some real shitty people.

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I'm pretty sure one of my close childhood friends is bisexual and we are fairly certain his wife knows. No one asks or cares. From what I can see the closet gay thing is no longer an issue for the 25 and under crowd. You still have fathers (most who were shitty to begin with) disowning their sons because they're gay but the boys/men aren't hiding it.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Yeah, that's about the size of it. Who gives a damn. I wonder how close we are on other fronts.

I would love my child and support them no matter what. And I would defend them against morons to the best of my ability...

But I wouldn't go as far as to say I wouldn't care at all. I'd prefer my child not be gay. If that makes me a bigot, so be it.

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You'd get over it pretty quickly. That's what I've seen happen from the rational people I know who were in that situation. Reality makes preference a meaningless concept. I see what you are saying, though.

I certainly hope so. It doesn't make them any less of a person, and I know I wouldn't love them any less... all I'm saying is that, given a choice, I'd prefer straight. Certainly, that can't be a crazy opinion to have. I would think most people would agree, no matter how progressive they claim to be.

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If given the choice of course you would prefer straight because life is probably easier and that whole grandkid thing. The reality is you want them to be happy and for the person they are with to treat them well.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Absolutely.

I gotta tell ya . . . on a slightly related note . . . I don't give a shit if an adult has gender dysphoria and has the operation. But I actually do know someone who had the surgery and it was kinda gross at first. I was nauseated the first few times I saw her (formerly him). Now, I don't give a shit, and neither do my kids.

I do still think it's a bit early for elementary school kids to start identifying as the other gender and using the other restroom, etc.

Kids don't know themselves that well at 8, 9, 10. I was surprised at how many were at our school. It's fairly small.

But I'm old.

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You know me like that.

Personally, it was really hard for me to admit to my parents that I knew how to cook but after a few months they accepted it and still loved me.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not going to let my daughter play sports or cut her hair short because MANY will think she's a lesbian.

I have a cousin who recently had a daughter. Her and her husband have decided to raise her gender neutral. They will not allow her to wear anything pink or that looks even close to girly. They get her outfits that are supposed to be neutral, but every time I see her she is in colors that look to me like boy outfits. Then they go apeshit crazy if you refer to her as a boy. THey were in a store the other day and a lady said what a cute little boy and they lost it on that poor lady. I do not get it at all. How is this helping the child in any way? Fucking messed up if you ask me.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I heard there is a transgender kindergartener the other day.

I still think I'm old.

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You know me like that.

You aren't. I don't think there is science behind that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's crazy. My oldest boy has long hair and for a long time got called she. My daughter was bald as a baby with no ribbon and got called he a lot for first year or so. You can go overboard on the gender neutral stuff. When my daughter was old enough to state a preference she wanted everything pink. At aboutv7 or 8 everything had to be blue.

As I've gotten older these things have bugged me less. As an 18 year old I'm not sure I'd of handled a friend coming out well. Don't care now I think but it hasn't happened in years. Had a few from high school and college that came out in later years that I treated with a meh, who cares.

Much like leash, I don't think it's a big deal to prefer the easier path when it comes to this but in the end, whatever makes them happy.

Transgender kindergartener sounds insane.

There is no such thing as a transgender kindergartner. That would be a child whose parent(s) want them to be that.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

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Correct. And anyone who defends this behavior is part of the reason why people can't get behind modern "Liberalism."

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

I've met you, and I read your posts. You're a very reasonable chap. Why the hyperbole on subjects like this? I don't think being progressive means that anyone who has even a bit of a Conservative view on things is some bigoted nut job.

Personally, I just still think we need distinct genders, and nature most certainly agrees with me. That said, I have absolutely no qualms with gender ID, sexual preference, or if someone has a fetish for anacondas. I just prefer that my offspring be more "normal." And if they aren't, I'll still love and support them.

Is that okay?

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I find the gay panic implied in a lot of it ignorant and just as hyperbolic. Boys can definitely play with dolls and it's not the first step down the road to man loving. To imply there's some fault in your parenting if your boy plays with a doll is insulting.

Women love guys who can cook.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way