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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:49 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
He's the most popular politician in the country, so he must be doing something right as a voice of the opposition.


Free kittens and because millennials.
Yup.

Easily shareable on facebook and not really doing anything besides sounding good.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:55 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
He's the most popular politician in the country, so he must be doing something right as a voice of the opposition.


Huey Long was pretty close to him, until he couldn't bring home the bacon for his supporter(s). And look at Louisiana politics ever since

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:05 pm 
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It's clearly apparent now that he would have done Trump-ian damage to progressive (or even moderately liberal) politics in this country.


Not seein' it. Explain.


It seems to me that Bernie hasn't become statesmanlike or just magnanimous since his L. His bluster and lack of political acumen as to how things get done likely tarred dems the way republican leadership rightly should be, if the press had any real integrity


Right... Hillary did no damage to the Liberal party.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:22 pm 
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I think Bernie has been quite magnanimous in the wake of a book published just to shit all over him.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:44 pm 
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In fact, in all that I've seen, he has refused to take the bait and has instead asked Hillary to join the progressive movement in fighting for universal healthcare and a higher federal minimum wage.

It really is amazing to see people say that Bernie was so "mean" for pointing out her policy flaws and now whine about him dwelling on the past after he clearly used kid gloves in the primaries and now refuses to say anything bad about her even after she shit on him in her book.

Apparently, the only way it would have been fair for Hillary would have been if she went unchallenged and had every Democratic candidate bow before her feet.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Can you imagine if Martin O'Malley wrote a book criticizing Bernie for being too far Left or for Bernie hurting his chances in the General Election? Of course not... because he's not an entitled brat who accuses any challenger of treason.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:12 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Can you imagine if Martin O'Malley wrote a book criticizing Bernie for being too far Left or for Bernie hurting his chances in the General Election? Of course not... because he's not an entitled brat who accuses any challenger of treason.


Now imagine that St. Bernie actually had done anything before or after his moment in the sun.

Ok I can't either

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:20 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
It really is amazing to see people say that Bernie was so "mean" for pointing out her policy flaws and now whine about him dwelling on the past after he clearly used kid gloves in the primaries and now refuses to say anything bad about her even after she shit on him in her book.

Apparently, the only way it would have been fair for Hillary would have been if she went unchallenged and had every Democratic candidate bow before her feet.


There is no comparison between 2008 and 2016 in terms of ugly, knock-down-drag-out Democratic primaries. Hillary did more to hurt Obama than Bernie could have dreamed of doing to hurt Hillary.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Can you imagine if Martin O'Malley wrote a book criticizing Bernie for being too far Left or for Bernie hurting his chances in the General Election? Of course not... because he's not an entitled brat who accuses any challenger of treason.


Now imagine that St. Bernie actually had done anything before or after his moment in the sun.

Ok I can't either


Nice work completely changing the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Bernie has motivated and mobilized a ton of young people who might not otherwise be involved in politics. If Mother got to run unopposed the way she wanted, without that groundswell of newly engaged Democratic voters, it's possible she would have lost to Trump even worse than she did.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
It really is amazing to see people say that Bernie was so "mean" for pointing out her policy flaws and now whine about him dwelling on the past after he clearly used kid gloves in the primaries and now refuses to say anything bad about her even after she shit on him in her book.

Apparently, the only way it would have been fair for Hillary would have been if she went unchallenged and had every Democratic candidate bow before her feet.


There is no comparison between 2008 and 2016 in terms of ugly, knock-down-drag-out Democratic primaries. Hillary did more to hurt Obama than Bernie could have dreamed of doing to hurt Hillary.


Of course. Hillary was handed the nomination by the DNC. The people who whine about Sanders need to face the realization that they only hate Sanders due to their biased belief that Hillary somehow deserved the nomination and any challenger was just delaying history.

We have elections in this country for a reason. Hillary wasn't entitled to shit. You can call Sanders a liar all you want, but it won't erase the fact that Hillary lost a general election to a guy whose foreign policy platform is to "bomb the hell out of them."

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:50 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
We have elections in this country for a reason. "

Exactly. So stop RESISTING and accept Trump now as your personal lord and savior.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:34 am 
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Sanders refused to politicize the email thing even though that was Clinton's no 1 weakness heading into the race. The idea that Sanders performance against Clinton damaged her in any way is laughable - he was in fact criticized for not going after her harder. If you don't want your positions to be attacked during a debate then maybe politics isn't your thing. Or maybe tonight could just buy the election instead of trying to win it the old fashioned way. Even that didn't work though. Poor Hillz.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:01 am 
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A guy who wasn't a Democrat was allowed to run as a Democrat. Criticizing the DNC for actually favoring the Democrat is foolish. Bernie clearly didn't want to win either. If he did he could have easily won. Therefore it is fair to wonder why he ran. Was it to enrich his family or to wound Hillary? Maybe it was both. He did state that she didn't have the judgment to be president when the race was clearly over. That being said he wasn't nearly as harmful to Hillary as she was to Obama.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:25 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Sanders refused to politicize the email thing even though that was Clinton's no 1 weakness heading into the race. The idea that Sanders performance against Clinton damaged her in any way is laughable - he was in fact criticized for not going after her harder. If you don't want your positions to be attacked during a debate then maybe politics isn't your thing. Or maybe tonight could just buy the election instead of trying to win it the old fashioned way. Even that didn't work though. Poor Hillz.



Yeah, it's actually exactly the opposite of what she portrays. She would have us believe that she was this poor put-upon underdog battling against impossible obstacles when in fact everything was laid out for her to be president and she got beat by a cretinous goon because she has a terrible personality. And she would have lost to a guy who outright claimed to be a socialist in the primary if the playing field had been level.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:33 am 
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All I can say is with all that is and has been of Hillary this is most enjoyable to take in. I think she should do more to share how immense her disillusionment and disappointment are. From the first moment she tried to be assistant POTUS to Bill she has been completely unlikable to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:42 am 
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pittmike wrote:
All I can say is with all that is and has been of Hillary this is most enjoyable to take in. I think she should do more to share how immense her disillusionment and disappointment are. From the first moment she tried to be assistant POTUS to Bill she has been completely unlikable to me.



There's no question she's unlikable and not because she's a woman either. There are plenty of likable women. And she would have won anyway if conditions had been different. Trump and Sanders were fringe candidates. Their rise is like a canary in a coalmine. There are a lot of people that aren't happy with the way things are. And I know that Boilermaker Rick is correct when he points out that even the least fortunate American has a great standard of living from an historical perspective and from a worldwide perspective. But that's not how the guy who is hurting perceives it. The country is more unstable now than it has been at any time in my life. And that even includes the 60s.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:05 am 
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Nas wrote:
A guy who wasn't a Democrat was allowed to run as a Democrat. Criticizing the DNC for actually favoring the Democrat is foolish. Bernie clearly didn't want to win either. If he did he could have easily won. Therefore it is fair to wonder why he ran. Was it to enrich his family or to wound Hillary? Maybe it was both. He did state that she didn't have the judgment to be president when the race was clearly over. That being said he wasn't nearly as harmful to Hillary as she was to Obama.
This is spot on. He just wanted the attention and to build himself a legacy as the cool old guy that would have changed the world had people only been smart enough to realize that his proposals were all so easy. I mean, he literally campaigned that he could give everyone all this free stuff and taxes basically wouldn't change for 99% of people outside of your healthcare costs which would be taxed at a lower rate than what you are paying now!

He had virtually no accomplishments as a legislator and this was a chance to have a legacy. He didn't want to win. Could you imagine what kind of political nightmare it would be to try and say how you will pay for free childcare for everyone? I mean, it seems like most people here don't even want to give a new father more than 2 weeks at home with the kids before they should toughen up and get back to work so the corporation they work for doesn't suffer and yet we were going to raise taxes enough to provide day care to every parent?

The only chance we have of a Bernie Sanders legacy is if someone steps up with some common sense and tries to sell real ideas we can get behind. He had a fair share of good ideas too. Like, how about we start with a living wage for all working Americans and maybe making Wall Street somewhat accountable and we can worry about free child care, tuition, and puppies once we solve the bigger issues?

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:14 am 
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Rick, you were a Rubio supporter.. What has that twink ever accomplished?

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:16 am 
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312player wrote:
Rick, you were a Rubio supporter.. What has that twink ever accomplished?
I was going for anyone who could beat Trump and I thought he was the best chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:19 am 
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Bullshit.. You were a Rubio guy months before Trump was even being taken seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:25 am 
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312player wrote:
Bullshit.. You were a Rubio guy months before Trump was even being taken seriously.
Well, wasn't the other favorite Ted Cruz who was worse than Trump?

I would say some got deleted but this is my first remaining post about Rubio.

http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=99625&p=2445486&hilit=rubio#p2445486

Anyways, if you want to say that Rubio was unaccomplished too then go ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:28 am 
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Bernie is good at vocalizing the issues. He says things a lot of people (Dems) would be afraid to say about the income gap, healthcare, and social issues. I think that's why he's popular.


His ideas being un-workable is more because the system is broken and the power is concentrated among the wealthy (who are not looking to give up any thing), not because they literally couldnt work.


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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:32 am 
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She is full of shit if she believes that Sanders attacks cost her anything. She is also full of shit if she believes that Sanders should not have attacked her at all. As the old saying goes politics isn't beanbag. Sanders should have gone after her. He did go after by the way. He attacked her relentlessly during the campaign. He laid off her in some areas but he attacked in others nonetheless.

That said she screwed up and has to own it. She didn't go after Sanders at all. She laid off him the same way she did with Obama. Surrogates aren't the candidate and too often she allows them to do most of her fighting.

Attack dog Hillary is the best Hillary but in both runs for President she has been reluctant to do so.

Just like Bernie didn't cost her the DNC didn't cost him. That narrative needs to stop. They didn't owe him anything either. He'd spent the entirety of his career touting a fake independence while simultaneously bashing the same establishment politicians that he suddenly claims to need in order to win.

He wasn't a Democrat and didn't care to be one until suddenly he decides to run for President. Isn't that the essence of phony?

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:35 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
His ideas being un-workable is more because the system is broken and the power is concentrated among the wealthy (who are not looking to give up any thing), not because they literally couldnt work.
Well, of course any of them could literally work. We could tax every person at 90% and do them all. The problem was that his solution was not to different than "We'll make Mexico pay for it" but was instead "We'll make the super rich pay for it".

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:45 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
His ideas being un-workable is more because the system is broken and the power is concentrated among the wealthy (who are not looking to give up any thing), not because they literally couldnt work.
Well, of course any of them could literally work. We could tax every person at 90% and do them all. The problem was that his solution was not to different than "We'll make Mexico pay for it" but was instead "We'll make the super rich pay for it".


Don't you think that actually is pretty common on the left?

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:47 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
His ideas being un-workable is more because the system is broken and the power is concentrated among the wealthy (who are not looking to give up any thing), not because they literally couldnt work.
Well, of course any of them could literally work. We could tax every person at 90% and do them all. The problem was that his solution was not to different than "We'll make Mexico pay for it" but was instead "We'll make the super rich pay for it".

Id differentiate those two. One of them is a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:49 am 
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Hillary literally created an ad for McCain and basically endorsed him with her "lifetime of experience" rant. Someone should tell her brats aren't sympathetic.

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:58 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
His ideas being un-workable is more because the system is broken and the power is concentrated among the wealthy (who are not looking to give up any thing), not because they literally couldnt work.
Well, of course any of them could literally work. We could tax every person at 90% and do them all. The problem was that his solution was not to different than "We'll make Mexico pay for it" but was instead "We'll make the super rich pay for it".

Id differentiate those two. One of them is a good idea.
What is a good idea?

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 Post subject: Re: Hillary Clinton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:01 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
His ideas being un-workable is more because the system is broken and the power is concentrated among the wealthy (who are not looking to give up any thing), not because they literally couldnt work.
Well, of course any of them could literally work. We could tax every person at 90% and do them all. The problem was that his solution was not to different than "We'll make Mexico pay for it" but was instead "We'll make the super rich pay for it".

Id differentiate those two. One of them is a good idea.
What is a good idea?

Closing the income gap via progressive taxes at the top.


Free community college, btw. And affordable child care, not free child care.


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